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Author Topic:   Where does literalism end and interpretation begin?
ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4110 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 5 of 96 (292797)
03-06-2006 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Christian
03-06-2006 2:49 PM


how can you interpret an object, we know what a heart looks like and what it does.
it pumps blood thats all

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Christian, posted 03-06-2006 2:49 PM Christian has replied

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 Message 7 by Christian, posted 03-06-2006 5:09 PM ReverendDG has not replied
 Message 9 by nwr, posted 03-06-2006 5:20 PM ReverendDG has replied

  
ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4110 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 15 of 96 (292872)
03-07-2006 12:32 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by robinrohan
03-06-2006 9:01 PM


So when ancient writers said "heart" in the sense of "the seat of the emotions" or one's inner self, this was intended non-literally. In modern times we also use the word "heart" in this sense.
no it was literal, they believed the heart was where all emotions came from, every early culture thought this. many greek writers thought emotions were caused by bad blood and other body fluids. Thats why they would leech people. thats where the word humor came from - good and bad humors
The writers of the bible being influenced by the greeks just like everyone else during that time also thought the heart was were emotions and thought come from.
so for modern people since we know the heart is not were emotions come from we know when people use it its not literial

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ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4110 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 16 of 96 (292874)
03-07-2006 12:40 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by nwr
03-06-2006 5:20 PM


I realize one thing, there are no literialists - the more we know about the human body, the world, and the universe, the less people can read the bible literially. Being that you have to willfully ignore things that show what the bible says is factually wrong. so instead you have to interpret it to mean something else or say its not really saying it
or you could be truthful and say its not suppose to be history but a story to give a background to a people that do not have one

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 Message 34 by arachnophilia, posted 03-07-2006 11:23 PM ReverendDG has replied

  
ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4110 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 35 of 96 (293134)
03-08-2006 2:35 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by arachnophilia
03-07-2006 11:23 PM


Re: no more literalists?
true i did leave that out i didn't think of it
so does that mean you believe there was a flood?, or that its a story or what?
or do you mean such as if it says the snake was cursed by god to move on its belly then its about a snake and not satan?
i agree they are not literalists, they might be revisionists or something along that line

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 Message 34 by arachnophilia, posted 03-07-2006 11:23 PM arachnophilia has replied

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 Message 92 by arachnophilia, posted 03-12-2006 12:36 AM ReverendDG has replied

  
ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4110 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 61 of 96 (293401)
03-08-2006 5:21 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Faith
03-08-2006 2:09 PM


Paul is God's representative in the writing of what I believe to be God's inspired word. Nothing is overridden. It all has meaning in its proper place.
if you read more history faith you would know the early christians followed the laws of the jews, infact it was part of being a christian. That was till paul came along and wanted to include gentiles, guess what? the gentiles wouldn't follow the jewish laws so paul took the laws out. It was paul not god overwriting gods word
The moral law (the ten commandments which include condemnation of sexual sin including homosexual sin) are not abrogated as the ceremonial laws are (the sacrifices, priestly conduct, food laws, feasts and fasts and other observances, etc), but they are also fulfilled in Christ, fulfilled so that all of our moral sins, including homosexual sin, are forgiven and not held against us at the Judgment, but ONLY if we have given ourselves to him. The moral law continues to judge those outside of Christ.
where does it say that homosexual sex is condemmed by the ten commandments? or is it your unspoken eleventh commandment, "thou shall not have teh butt sex?"
they are not 'ceremonial laws' faith ask any jewish person how important the laws are to them in thier knowlege of god, just because you do not follow them doesn't give you the right to call them ceremonial.
I'm trying to think but i believe i read that only 7 matter i think the first three have to do with worshiping yehwah and have nothing to do with your moral law
This message has been edited by ReverendDG, 03-08-2006 05:22 PM
This message has been edited by ReverendDG, 03-08-2006 05:37 PM

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 Message 53 by Faith, posted 03-08-2006 2:09 PM Faith has replied

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 Message 68 by Faith, posted 03-08-2006 6:33 PM ReverendDG has replied

  
ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4110 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 71 of 96 (293452)
03-08-2006 6:51 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by Faith
03-08-2006 6:33 PM


If you had more respect for orthodox theology you would know that the early Jews did continue to follow the laws of the Jews and that Paul himself supported them because their conscience was bound up in those laws.
If you mean the early christians then yes i realize this, i said this faith. christianity was a jewish sect until the scizm between paul and peter over this, paul wanted to include the gentiles, thus would the jewish laws would have to be removed and peter wanted to include them because jesus taught they were useful. by the way i trust history of people who know about the christians and the jewish people during that time over pauline dogma.
And the understanding that the death of Christ paid every last jot and tittle of the Law Paul knew through knowing God, but only true believers are privileged to understand this. Obviously debunkers will never get it.
and the jews as well faith? pauline beliefs sure are depressing
About homosexuality in the ten commandments see what I wrote to Creavolution above.
as i said before where is it faith, it says adultery, do you know the meaning of the word? Adultery - Wikipedia it must be an unknown 11th commandment "thou shalt not have teh butt sex"
I don't think you have a clue what the term "ceremonial" even means. A Jew would be an idiot not to recognize that that term is descriptive.
sorry i must have read it wrong, and took it to mean something else
Loving God and loving neighbor are the two tablets of the moral law, as Jesus said. You want to throw out the first tablet.
i sohuld have restated that, the hewbrews didn't care if gentiles followed the first 3 laws, this has nothing to do with jesus
This message has been edited by ReverendDG, 03-08-2006 06:52 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Faith, posted 03-08-2006 6:33 PM Faith has replied

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 Message 73 by Faith, posted 03-08-2006 6:55 PM ReverendDG has replied

  
ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4110 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 77 of 96 (293495)
03-08-2006 9:43 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by Faith
03-08-2006 6:55 PM


Christians obey all the ten commandments and loving God is the highest of them all.
But the 10 commendments arn't about loving god they are about worshipping him and obaying him in all things
Paul was God's instrument, as inspired by God as any of the OT prophets and no believer will ever pit Paul against God. All of Paul's teachings came from God.
thats because you are a believer in paul's writings, its all a matter of degree, anyone can say they are god inspired.
I'm talking history here, the fact that paul was the person that preached to gentiles who would not follow the jewish law, and we don't follow it shows it must have been changed. it had nothing to do with being fair to someones beliefs. they condemmed anyone who worshiped idols and things like thing.
i suppose this was a bad idea to ask all this being OT, admin stop me if it is

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 Message 73 by Faith, posted 03-08-2006 6:55 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by Faith, posted 03-09-2006 2:45 PM ReverendDG has replied

  
ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4110 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 82 of 96 (293821)
03-10-2006 2:58 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by Faith
03-09-2006 2:45 PM


no its no problem, i might propose a topic on this, i love history and discussing it. but its my fault i shouldn't have started it

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ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4110 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 93 of 96 (294399)
03-12-2006 1:38 AM
Reply to: Message 92 by arachnophilia
03-12-2006 12:36 AM


Re: no more literalists?
Ah, ok i understand now, so you do not add things to the text from other sources, such as say a church father or some sort of tradition that is nonbiblical

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by arachnophilia, posted 03-12-2006 12:36 AM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by arachnophilia, posted 03-18-2006 9:06 PM ReverendDG has not replied

  
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