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Author Topic:   Is God Omnipresent?
Phat
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Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 6 of 86 (294164)
03-10-2006 8:35 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by R. Cuaresma
03-10-2006 6:07 AM


Evil needs a carrier
God may well be all present. Evil is present as a disembodied spirit in many places (not all) as well. Evil needs a carrier, much like a germ or virus needs a carrier. Evil is allowed to flourish in the absense of acknowledgement and surrender to Gods Spirit.
If I became a porno junkie, I could never claim that the devil made me do it. It would be my responsibility because, as a believer, I did not allow Gods Spirit to over-ride my carnality and subsequent idolatry.
We have no scientific way to determine if God is present everywhere at all times---there is no geiger counter for the Holy Spirit.
It is thus a Faith issue, although seeing as how there is no way to disprove it either, we have an unanswered question.
When Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris gunned down the victims at Columbine High School, where was God?
I believe that God was with the victims, and the news tells us that Klebold and Harris either committed suicide or shot each other.
God was available but was unwanted by these killers.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by R. Cuaresma, posted 03-10-2006 6:07 AM R. Cuaresma has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Chronos, posted 03-11-2006 1:33 PM Phat has replied
 Message 85 by riVeRraT, posted 03-24-2006 7:12 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 11 of 86 (294293)
03-11-2006 2:01 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Chronos
03-11-2006 1:33 PM


Re: Evil needs a carrier
Chronos writes:
Do you consider natural disasters to be evil?
No. Natural disasters are inanimate events. Evil needs animation, or life within which to carry out whatever it is that evils "purpose" is.
The Holy Spirit, IMO and Belief, is everywhere...without limitation...
while evil disembodied spirits need bodies in which to animate their purpose.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Chronos, posted 03-11-2006 1:33 PM Chronos has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Chronos, posted 03-11-2006 2:35 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 15 of 86 (294493)
03-12-2006 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Chronos
03-11-2006 2:35 PM


Re: Evil needs a carrier
Chronos writes:
So, if the Holy Spirit is living inside of every virus, harmful bacteria, volcano, lightning bolt, asteroid, tidal wave, etc, is it animating them with its own purposes?
Phat writes:
IMHO, the Holy Spirit is not "animating" or "energizing" these things. We would need to be able to quantify and define what spiritual energy is before we could know for certain. Its been done in the movies (Ghostbusters) but so far not in real life conclusively.
Also, can humans be evil on their own accord, or only via demons?
Phat writes:
Humans are unfortunately more than capable---and responsible--for their own actions. Demons--defined as any spiritual energy that is NOT the Holy Spirit--only add to the actions. It would be similar to germs thriving in an area of the body that is not healthy.The germs were not the cause of the "ulcer" but by thriving there,(in an area of poor circulation, perhaps) they ensure that the Ulcer never heals. Its like H.Pylori bacteria.
The Bible only states that (regarding Jesus)
NIV writes:
John 1:3-5
4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.
Perhaps what jar is asking is that if God is light, how can there be any "darkness" at all if God is omnipresent?
It follows that God allows darkness to exist...both in the natural references to the term as well as the spiritual references.
In reference to the Bible verse above, have you ever heard of a natural shadow "understanding" anything? Apparantly, since God is everywhere, the darkness and the shadows are notplaces to hide so much as they are regions to freely deny or disbelieve the reality of the omnipresent light.
This message has been edited by Phat, 03-12-2006 10:28 AM

Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart, and through all human hearts. This line shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years. Even within hearts overwhelmed by evil, one small bridgehead of good is retained; and even in the best of all hearts, there remains a small corner of evil. --Alexander Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 23 of 86 (294503)
03-12-2006 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by robinrohan
03-12-2006 12:29 PM


Re: what does OmniPresent mean
to imply otherwise suggests pantheistic theology

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 71 of 86 (295009)
03-13-2006 7:34 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by robinrohan
03-13-2006 7:05 PM


Re: what does OmniPresent mean
Thats a good example, Robin. Of course, we believe that God is present everywhere in that He is aware of what is going on in all places. His awareness is everywhere. Thus, He knows when "evil" is happening without actually synergizing His Spirit with the evil actions themselves.
Of course, we are discussing issues of faith, here. Not everyone believes the same things, nor sees it the same way. Much of what we believe we were simply taught---without pondering the implications.
I was always taught that the "other spirits" could not be aware of what was happening in all places at once. They could somehow communicate with each other through conduits such as gossip and the media...(Im sticking with my original premise that humans are a necessary conduit of evil)
Its not that the demons use us. We use them. God observes all of it---every bit of our behavior---and I believe that He wants us to realize that He is there and that He cares about our behavior.
Unlike the other spirits, however, God does not need humans nor words of the media(medium) as a conduit....that is the difference between the Holy Spirit and the wannabes.

Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart, and through all human hearts. This line shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years. Even within hearts overwhelmed by evil, one small bridgehead of good is retained; and even in the best of all hearts, there remains a small corner of evil. --Alexander Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago

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 Message 70 by robinrohan, posted 03-13-2006 7:05 PM robinrohan has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 72 of 86 (295013)
03-13-2006 7:41 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by jar
03-13-2006 7:00 PM


Re: what does OmniPresent mean
jar writes:
If GOD is everywhere, in past and present, in spiritual and material, and evil exists, then evil is in GOD, GOD is evil.
IMHO, this is what the Bible means when it urges us to be In Christ. As humans, there are many moments of any given day that we are not In Christ. He is (with) us, however...IMB. Whenever *evil* exists, it is because the perpetrators of the evil are In *evil* at that moment....they are choosing to allow the virus to consume them.
Some examples:
  • Ego and anger that we occasionally have for each other, based on jealousy, pride, lust, etc....
  • Fanaticism of many varieties...(including religious fanaticism)
  • Idolatry---willfully choosing something other than the Holy Spirit to be the focus of attention, passion, and focus.
    In each of these cases, I believe that God is with us at that moment...however because we at that moment are willfully choosing to not be In Christ, He respectfully declines to be In us. (yet by being with us, He never leaves nor forsakes us even as we forsake and ignore Him.) Am I clearing anything up or am I confusing the topic all the more?
    This message has been edited by Phat, 03-13-2006 05:43 PM

  • This message is a reply to:
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    Replies to this message:
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     Message 78 by Hawkins, posted 03-20-2006 11:51 PM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 79 of 86 (297032)
    03-21-2006 10:02 AM
    Reply to: Message 78 by Hawkins
    03-20-2006 11:51 PM


    Re: what does OmniPresent mean
    Hawkins writes:
    Yet those questions actually have *absolutely nothing* to do AT ALL with God's omni-nature, so to speak. So why bother with answering such a question?
    You tell me.
    I am no authority on Gods nature, except as such that I interpret the Bible.
    Perhaps a philosophical question would be this:
    Only God knows if He is Omnipreasent, right?
    What implications do the truth or fallacy of this statement mean for humanity today?

    Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart, and through all human hearts. This line shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years. Even within hearts overwhelmed by evil, one small bridgehead of good is retained; and even in the best of all hearts, there remains a small corner of evil. --Alexander Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 78 by Hawkins, posted 03-20-2006 11:51 PM Hawkins has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 81 by robinrohan, posted 03-21-2006 2:55 PM Phat has not replied
     Message 82 by Hawkins, posted 03-21-2006 7:55 PM Phat has not replied

      
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