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Author Topic:   stages of the creation of man
sarah
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 8 (28567)
01-07-2003 5:24 AM


Allah says in the Qur'aan about the stages of the creation of man:
((Man we did create from a quintessence (of clay); Then we placed as (a drop of) sperm (nutfah) in a place firmly fixed; Then we made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood (‘alaqah); Then of that clot we made a (fetus) lump (mudghah); then we made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh; then we developed out of it another creature)). (Qur'aan 23:12-)

((He creates you in the wombs of your mother, in stages, one after another, in three veils of darkness)). (Qur'aan 39:6)

((What is the matter with you, that you are not conscious of Allah’s Majesty. Seeing that it is He who has created you in diverse stages? (Qur'aan 71:13-1)

the creation of Adam Allah said:
((The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: “Be”: And he was))(Qur’aan 3:59)

Thank's


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Primordial Egg, posted 01-07-2003 6:31 AM sarah has not yet responded
 Message 3 by Primordial Egg, posted 01-07-2003 6:50 AM sarah has not yet responded
 Message 4 by Andya Primanda, posted 01-07-2003 8:15 AM sarah has not yet responded

  
Primordial Egg
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 8 (28569)
01-07-2003 6:31 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by sarah
01-07-2003 5:24 AM


Looks like He got it wrong with the clay, and the congealed blood.

At the time the Quran was written, the prevailing view was Aristotle's notion that humans originated from the action of semen on female menstrual blood. At no stage does an embryo resemble a blood clot unless it is miscarried, which is probably where the notion arose from.

In fact, this is consistent with (and highly suggestive of) the idea that the Quran was written by human beings using the knowledge of their time, and not by a supernatural omniscient agent (well, certainly not omniscient, anyway). If we assume that the Quran was written by man, then we'd also expect to see similar scientific errors in it which reflect the thinking of the time...

Till, when he (the traveller Zul-qarnain) reached the setting-place of the Sun, he found it going down into a muddy spring (18:86)

...such as the idea that the sun sets every night in a muddy spring.

PE

edit typos

[This message has been edited by Primordial Egg, 01-07-2003]


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by sarah, posted 01-07-2003 5:24 AM sarah has not yet responded

  
Primordial Egg
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 8 (28571)
01-07-2003 6:50 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by sarah
01-07-2003 5:24 AM


Just to add, written by the Greek physician Galen 150AD:

"Let us divide the creation of the foetus overall into four periods of time. The first is that in which, as is seen both in abortions and in dissection, the form of the semen prevails ... But when it has been filled with blood and heart, brain and liver are still unarticulated and unshaped yet have by now a certain solidarity and considerable size, this is the second period; the substance of the foetus has the form of flesh and no longer the form of semen. The third period follows on this, when, as was said, it is possible to see the three ruling parts clearly and a kind of outline, a silhouette, as it were, of all the other parts. You will see the conformation of the three ruling parts more clearly, that of the parts of the stomach more dimly, and much more still, that of the limbs. Later on they form "twigs", as Hippocrates expressed it, indicating by the term their similarity to branches. The fourth and final period is at the stage when all the parts in the limbs have been differentiated; and at this part Hippocrates the marvelous no longer calls the foetus an embryo only, but already a child, too when he says that it jerks and moves as an animal now fully formed".
[Corpus Medicorum Graecorum: Galeni de Semine (Galen: On Semen) (Greek text with English trans. Phillip de Lacy, Akademic Verlag, 1992) section I:9:1-10 pp. 92-95]

which is very similar to what the Quran says.

Conclusions:

Either:

1) The Quran is the word of a fallible God and a fallible Allah copied his ideas from Galen
2) The Quran is the word of a fallible God and a fallible Allah secretly gave his ideas to Galen 400 years before Islam under strict instructions not to reveal his sources
3) Allah didn't write the Quran, human beings did and incorporated Galen's ideas and passed them off as Allah's.
4) Allah doesn't exist and the whole shebang represents different devolepmental stages in human beings' history and cultural and technological progress.
5) Your translation is incorrect and the Quran actually says whatever it needs to have said in order for it to be regarded as true. Ish.

PE


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by sarah, posted 01-07-2003 5:24 AM sarah has not yet responded

  
Andya Primanda
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 8 (28577)
01-07-2003 8:15 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by sarah
01-07-2003 5:24 AM


It's good to have another Muslim here. Welcome aboard sister Sarah.

Anyway, even though some Qur'anic verses can be interpreted as supporting evolution, it is wiser to just leave them be. Science is ever-changing and we don't know if tomorrow it would change. Contrary to Maurice Bucaille (maybe you draw your inspiration hrom him?), I do not consider the Qur'an a book of science. Yes, it is a book of guidance, but I'd not read scientific discoveries into it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by sarah, posted 01-07-2003 5:24 AM sarah has not yet responded

  
sarah
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 8 (28629)
01-08-2003 2:08 AM


Really,This Greek physician Galen did he has aMicroscope in 150AD?
How did he see the creation's stages inside the Womb?

BY AND LARGE,The Holly Quraan was revealed to Prophet Muhammad. He did not author it. He was unlettered.It's the last revealed word of God (Allah), is the primary source of every Muslim's faith and practice. It deals with all the subjects which concern human beings: wisdom, doctrine, worship, transactions, law, etc., but its basic theme is the relationship between Allah and His creatures. At the same time it provides guidelines and detailed teachings for a just society, proper human conduct, and an equitable economic system

1-Could it be a coincidence that all this recently discovered scientific information from different fields was mentioned in the Qur'aan which was revealed 14 centuries ago?

2-Could this Qur'aan have been authored by Muhammad (sallAllahu 'alaihi wa sallam) or by any other human being?

The only possible answer to that is that the Qur'aan must be the literal word of God (Allah) revealed by Him. The Qur'aan is the literal word of Allah which He revealed to His Prophet Muhammad (sallAllahu 'alaihi wa sallam) through the Angel Jibreel (Gabriel). It was memorized by Muhammad (sallAllahu 'alaihi wa sallam) who then dictated it to his companions. They in turn memorized it, wrote it down, and reviewed it with the Prophet Muhammad (sallAllahu 'alaihi wa sallam)

Moreover, the Prophet Muhammad (sallAllahu 'alaihi wa sallam) reviewed the Qur'aan with the Angel Jibreel once every Ramadhan (the month of fasting) and twice in the last year of his life in the same Islamic calendar. Since the Qur'aan was revealed, up until today, there has always been a huge number of Muslims who have memorized all of the Qur'aan, letter by letter. Some of them have been able to memorize all of the Qur'aan by the age of ten. Thus, it is not surprising to note that not one letter of the Qur'aan has been changed for centuries up to now.

The Qur'aan which was revealed 14 centuries ago mentioned facts that are only recently discovered by proven scientists. This proves without doubt that the Qur'aan must be the literal word of Allah, revealed by Him to the Prophet Muhammad (sallAllahu 'alaihi wa sallam) and it also proves that Muhammad (sallAllahu 'alaihi wa sallam) is truly a Messenger and Prophet sent by Allah. It is beyond reason that anyone fourteen hundred years ago would have known these facts discovered or proven very recently with advanced equipment and sophisticated methods.

Iagree with you,The Qur’aan is not a book of science but a book of ‘signs’, i.e. ayats. There are more than six thousand ‘signs’ in the Qur’aan of which more than a thousand deal with science.

[This message has been edited by sarah, 01-09-2003]


Replies to this message:
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sarah
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 8 (28632)
01-08-2003 2:54 AM


What about this?Did he MENTION This in his book?

CREATION OF THE UNIVERSE: ‘THE BIG BANG’
The creation of the universe is explained by astrophysicists in a widely accepted phenomenon, popularly known as the ‘Big Bang’. It is supported by observational and experimental data gathered by astronomers and astrophysicists for decades. According to the ‘Big Bang’, the whole universe was initially one big mass (Primary Nebula). Then there was a ‘Big Bang’ (Secondary Separation) which resulted in the formation of Galaxies. These then divided to form stars, planets, the sun, the moon, etc. The origin of the universe was unique and the probability of it occurring by ‘chance’ is zero. The Qur’aan contains the following verse, regarding the origin of the universe:
“Do not the Unbelievers see That the heavens and the earth Were joined together (as one Unit of Creation), before We clove them asunder?” Al-Qur’aan 41:11

Again, this fact is a corollary to the ‘Big Bang’ and was not known to the Arabs during the time of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). What then, could have been the source of this knowledge.

THE SPHERICAL SHAPE OF THE EARTH:

In early times, people believed that the earth is flat. For centuries, men were afraid to venture out too far, lest they should fall off the edge. Sir Francis Drake was the first person who proved that the earth is spherical when he sailed around it in 1597. Consider the following Qur’aanic verse regarding the alternation of day and night:
“Seest thou not that Allah merges Night into Day And He merges Day into Night?” [Al-Qur’aan 31:29]
Merging here means that the night slowly and gradually changes to day and vice versa. This phenomenon can only take place if the earth is spherical. If the earth was flat, there would have been a sudden change from night to day and from day to nigh.
The following verse also alludes to the spherical shape of the earth:
“He created the heavens And the earth In true (proportions): He makes the Night Overlap the Day, and the Day Overlap the Night.”

The Arabic word dahaha has been translated by A. Yusuf Ali as “vast expanse”, which also is correct. The word dahaha also means an ostrich-egg. Consider the following verses related to the nature of light from the sun and the moon: “It is He who made the sun To be a shining glory And the moon to be a light (Of beauty).” Al-Qur’aan 25:61
The Arabic word for the sun in the Qur’aan, is shams. It is referred to as siraaj, which means a ‘torch’ or as wahhaaj which means ‘a blazing lamp’ or as diya which means ‘shining glory’. All three descriptions are appropriate to the sun, since it generates intense heat and light by its internal combustion. The Arabic word for the moon is qamar and it is described in the Qur’aan as muneer, which is a body that gives nur i.e. light. Again, the Qur’aanic description matches perfectly with the true nature of the moon, which does not give off light itself and is an inert body that reflects the light of the sun. Not once in the Qur’aan, is the moon mentioned as siraaj, wahhaaj or diya or the sun as nur or muneer. This implies that the Qur’aan recognizes the difference between the nature of sunlight and moonlight
Consider the following verses related to the nature of light from the sun and the moon

It is He who made the sun To be a shining glory And the moon to be a light (Of beauty).” [Al-Qur’aan 10:5]

See ye not How Allah has created The seven heavens One above another, “And made the moon A light in their midst, and made the sun As a (Glorious) Lamp?”
The Arabic word used in the above verse is yasbahûn. The word yasbahûn is derived from the word sabaha. It carries with it the idea of motion that comes from any moving body. If you use the word for a man on the ground, it would not mean that he is rolling but would mean he is walking or running. If you use the word for a man in water it would not mean that he is floating but would mean that he is swimming.Similarly, if you use the word yasbah for a celestial body such as the sun it would not mean that it is only flying through space but would mean that it is also rotating as it goes through space. Most of the school textbooks have incorporated the fact that the sun rotates about its axis. The rotation of the sun about its own axis can be proved with the help of an equipment that projects the image of the sun on the table top so that one can examine the image of the sun without being blinded. It is noticed that the sun has spots which complete a circular motion once every 25 days i.e. the sun takes approximately 25 days to rotate around its axis.
In fact, the sun travels through space at roughly 150 miles per second, and takes about 200 million years to complete one revolution around the center of our Milky Way Galaxy.

It is not permitted To the Sun to catch up The Moon, nor can The Night outstrip the Day: Each (just) swims along In (its own) orbit (According to Law).” [Al-Qur’aan 36:40]

This verse mentions an essential fact discovered by modern astronomy, i.e. the existence of the individual orbits of the Sun and the Moon, and their journey through space with their own motion. The ‘fixed place’ towards, which the sun travels, carrying with it the solar system, has been located exactly by modern astronomy. It has been given a name, the Solar Apex. The solar system is indeed moving in space towards a point situated in the constellation of Hercules (alpha Layer) whose exact location is firmly established.
The moon rotates around its axis in the same duration that it takes to revolve around the earth. It takes approximately 29½ days to complete one rotation. One cannot help but be amazed at the scientific accuracy of the Qur’aanic verses. Should we not ponder over the question: “What was the source of knowledge contained in the Qur’aan?”
And there are more in Physics,Geology,Oceanology,Biology,Botany,Zoology,Medicine,Physiology and Embryology in the Quran.

[This message has been edited by sarah, 01-09-2003]


  
Primordial Egg
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 8 (28638)
01-08-2003 3:55 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by sarah
01-08-2003 2:08 AM


quote:
Really,This Greek physician Galen did he has aMicroscope in 150AD?
How did he see the creation's stages inside the Womb?

Interesting (and revealing) riposte. How would YOU use a microscope to reveal creation's stages inside the womb?

Looking at the rest of your post, I note that you haven't bothered to reply to any of my points, but begun sermonising. Not just that, but its pretty obvious from your last line:

In this book I have considered only established scientific facts and not mere hypotheses and theories that are based on assumptions and are not backed by proof.

..that you've cut and pasted from the back of a book (page 8) (and seemed to pass this off as your own, which I believe breaks the forum guidelines) so I'm not going to waste my energy any further...Come back when you've learnt to think for yourself.

PE


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by sarah, posted 01-08-2003 2:08 AM sarah has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by sarah, posted 01-20-2003 7:15 AM Primordial Egg has not yet responded

  
sarah
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 8 (29641)
01-20-2003 7:15 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Primordial Egg
01-08-2003 3:55 AM


if you want would like to know more,visit here

http://www.beconvinced.com/science/QURANEMBROY.htm

[This message has been edited by sarah, 01-20-2003]


This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Primordial Egg, posted 01-08-2003 3:55 AM Primordial Egg has not yet responded

  
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