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Author Topic:   Intelligent Design explains many follies
inkorrekt
Member (Idle past 6082 days)
Posts: 382
From: Westminster,CO, USA
Joined: 02-04-2006


Message 46 of 302 (292555)
03-05-2006 11:05 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by Gary
02-27-2006 5:30 PM


Re: Evolutionary algorithms
Nylon contains a type of bond not present in any known biological system. Do these herbicides also contain bonds not found anywhere else? Is the human body actually breaking them down, or are they simply stored in fatty tissue, or excreted by the kidneys? """"
No, Nylon contains the peptide bond which is present in all proteins. This is known as CO-NH. No Herbicides have different structures as well as elements. Depending on the nature of the toxic chemicals some are stored in the fatty tissues. But, most of them are degraded by enzymes in the liver and excreted by the kidneys.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Gary, posted 02-27-2006 5:30 PM Gary has not replied

John 10:10
Member (Idle past 2996 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 47 of 302 (296232)
03-17-2006 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by inkorrekt
02-04-2006 6:54 PM


Scientists can believe that a mass the size of a pebble expanded exponentially over and over to become an intricately complicated universe ( 404: Page Not Found - The Globe and Mail),
but they cannot believe that Intelligent Design, i.e., a Creator God caused this.
Very strange indeed !!!
.........................................................
NASA images offer details about design of the universe
Probe 'confirms suspicions' of events after Big Bang, UBC professor says
PETTI FONG
VANCOUVER -- You may be reassured to know, as physicist Mark Halpern of the University of British Columbia has just learned, that the universe is behaving exactly as it should.
New images from a NASA space probe that Prof. Halpern and scientists from throughout the United States designed and launched five years ago, have provided evidence of what happened 13.7 billion years ago.
Prof. Halpern looked back in time to capture the split second when a mass the size of a pebble expanded exponentially over and over to become the universe, after the Big Bang.
And he saw what he expected to see.
"The simplest version of this fairy tale that is our universe is now dramatically more secure," Prof. Halpern said.
"What surprised me is how incredibly well the simple picture fits. It seems we understand a lot about the universe that until now has been just about guesses. Things are the way we believed they should be."
Cosmic microwave background radiation is the radiant heat left over from the Big Bang and first observed in 1965 by astronomers. From the properties of the radiation, scientists can learn the physical conditions of the universe at its beginning stages.
Images released yesterday detected the earliest light seen yet from the Big Bang afterglow, providing new evidence that the universe grew suddenly in less than a trillionth of a second.
The current picture shows blue and green cool spots, yellow and red hot spots and white slashes to indicate polarization, which tell scientists how material was moving in the beginning when the universe formed.
The information pinpoints when the first stars formed and provides new details about events that transpired in the first trillionth of a second. It's from quantum fluctuations that stars, planets and the galaxies formed.
Mike Nolta, a postdoctoral fellow at the Canadian Institute for Theoretical Astrophysics in Toronto, said the images are a relic left over from the beginning of the universe.
"There was an expectation we would see what we're seeing. It basically confirms our suspicions," he said yesterday.
For the past three years, the satellite has continuously observed the cosmic background radiation that lingers from the universe's sudden forceful beginnings billions of years ago from a distance of 1.6 million kilometres away from Earth.
From their observations, scientists were able to report the age of the universe as 13.7 billion years, give or take a few hundred million, and the age of the universe when stars first began to shine, 400 million years later, again with the cushion room of a few million either way.
Prof. Halpern and 12 other U.S. scientists around began the project, but it has since expanded to include a group of 20 physicists who continuously monitor and analyze the patterns and signals received.
Over the past three years, scientists have been able to identify that just 4 per cent of the universe is composed of ordinary familiar atoms.
Researchers have still not been able to identify 22 per cent of the universe, which they call "dark matter."
"It's not atoms, so it remains a mystery. It's some other stuff that doesn't give off light. We know it doesn't bump into other matter, but it gives us something to think about," Prof. Halpern said.
A remaining 74 per cent of the universe is another mysterious substance called dark energy.
Each new piece of the puzzle in determining the origins of the universe is done for pure curiosity, according to Prof. Halpern.
"It's not going to help us understand weather patterns or other things like that," he said.
But reassuringly, the latest images indicate the universe will last even longer than scientists predicted.
Also, its expansion is accelerating, rather than slowing down.
"I used to say the universe will last forever and people would say, 'How do you know that?' " Prof. Halpern said. "Now I can say it will last at least many tens of billions of years and the universe we know will last forever or at least as long as forever means."
Editted out HUGE line of periods to fix page width - The Queen
This message has been edited by John 10:10, 03-17-2006 11:53 AM
This message has been edited by AdminAsgara, 03-17-2006 01:45 PM

The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by inkorrekt, posted 02-04-2006 6:54 PM inkorrekt has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by ramoss, posted 03-17-2006 12:13 PM John 10:10 has replied
 Message 49 by inkorrekt, posted 03-17-2006 12:57 PM John 10:10 has not replied

ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 48 of 302 (296239)
03-17-2006 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by John 10:10
03-17-2006 11:52 AM


It IS a very poorly written article.
Funny, it is just a newspaper article that tells nothing new, nor does it talk about one thing that science must have.. that is evidence.
Very strange that you dismiss something because you don't agree with it based on a newspaper article, yet don't bother to look at the evidence.
That is the I.D. movement in a nutshell.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by John 10:10, posted 03-17-2006 11:52 AM John 10:10 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by John 10:10, posted 03-17-2006 2:34 PM ramoss has replied

inkorrekt
Member (Idle past 6082 days)
Posts: 382
From: Westminster,CO, USA
Joined: 02-04-2006


Message 49 of 302 (296249)
03-17-2006 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by John 10:10
03-17-2006 11:52 AM


How sad it is!!!
On the one hand, we the beauty of the unique wisdom of the designer everywhere. On the other hand, there are others who are biassed and force us to believe that everything came into existence by themselves which is not more than afairy tale.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by John 10:10, posted 03-17-2006 11:52 AM John 10:10 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by nator, posted 03-18-2006 9:43 AM inkorrekt has not replied

John 10:10
Member (Idle past 2996 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 50 of 302 (296301)
03-17-2006 2:34 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by ramoss
03-17-2006 12:13 PM


ramoss writes,
"Very strange that you dismiss something because you don't agree with it based on a newspaper article, yet don't bother to look at the evidence.
That is the I.D. movement in a nutshell."
I don't disagree with the newspaper article at all!
As a matter of fact, I believe the creation of the heavens and the earth started from something much smaller than a pebble. I believe the universe started from NOTHING, and came into existance as a result of God speaking the universe into existance.
The one who lives in denial is the one who can believe an intricately complex universe can exist without a Creator.
Blessings

The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by ramoss, posted 03-17-2006 12:13 PM ramoss has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by ramoss, posted 03-17-2006 4:50 PM John 10:10 has replied

ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 51 of 302 (296340)
03-17-2006 4:50 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by John 10:10
03-17-2006 2:34 PM


Well, you have made your statement of faith.
However, this is in the science section.
How does your statement of faith show any evidence to the 'Intelligence design' movement? How is a piece of astrophysics related to biology?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by John 10:10, posted 03-17-2006 2:34 PM John 10:10 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by John 10:10, posted 03-18-2006 9:35 AM ramoss has not replied

John 10:10
Member (Idle past 2996 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 52 of 302 (296446)
03-18-2006 9:35 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by ramoss
03-17-2006 4:50 PM


You may call it my statement of faith if you like, but it's really my statement of fact.
Show me one intricately complex man made thing that exists without man first designing and then constructing his design.
The same truth principle applies to the intricately complex universe, and even to man himself.

The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by ramoss, posted 03-17-2006 4:50 PM ramoss has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by nator, posted 03-18-2006 9:46 AM John 10:10 has not replied
 Message 55 by AdminJar, posted 03-18-2006 10:38 AM John 10:10 has replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 53 of 302 (296448)
03-18-2006 9:43 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by inkorrekt
03-17-2006 12:57 PM


Re: How sad it is!!!
Ink, you mentioned that you are a biologist.
What is your area of study?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by inkorrekt, posted 03-17-2006 12:57 PM inkorrekt has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 54 of 302 (296449)
03-18-2006 9:46 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by John 10:10
03-18-2006 9:35 AM


quote:
Show me one intricately complex man made thing that exists without man first designing and then constructing his design.
The same truth principle applies to the intricately complex universe, and even to man himself.
Was this structure designed or was it produced by random forces of weather?:

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by John 10:10, posted 03-18-2006 9:35 AM John 10:10 has not replied

AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 55 of 302 (296458)
03-18-2006 10:38 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by John 10:10
03-18-2006 9:35 AM


You have been warned before John.
John, you are on the science side of the forum. Here you are expected to actually back up your statements with evidence. Assertions from Faith are fine over in the Faith forums. There, a quotation from the Koran or one from the Bible are of equal weight and of equal support.
But in the science forums, evidence and logic must be used. To make a statement like "The same truth principle applies to the intricately complex universe, and even to man himself." is not support for anything.
If you are going to continue posting in the Science side of the board then you will be expected to support your assertions when it is called for.

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  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 52 by John 10:10, posted 03-18-2006 9:35 AM John 10:10 has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 56 by John 10:10, posted 03-18-2006 11:34 AM AdminJar has replied

    John 10:10
    Member (Idle past 2996 days)
    Posts: 766
    From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
    Joined: 02-01-2006


    Message 56 of 302 (296466)
    03-18-2006 11:34 AM
    Reply to: Message 55 by AdminJar
    03-18-2006 10:38 AM


    Re: You have been warned before John.
    OK, show me one intricately complex "man made thing", not a pic of some nature scene, that exists without man first designing and then constructing his design.
    Is this a fair question to ask on the science side of the forum?
    True science is supposed to be the study and proof of cause and effect. If one cannot prove the theory actually produces the effect from the start to the finish, how can evolution be called science?

    The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 55 by AdminJar, posted 03-18-2006 10:38 AM AdminJar has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 57 by AdminJar, posted 03-18-2006 11:38 AM John 10:10 has not replied
     Message 58 by Rahvin, posted 03-18-2006 2:07 PM John 10:10 has replied
     Message 67 by nator, posted 03-19-2006 9:13 AM John 10:10 has not replied

    AdminJar
    Inactive Member


    Message 57 of 302 (296469)
    03-18-2006 11:38 AM
    Reply to: Message 56 by John 10:10
    03-18-2006 11:34 AM


    Re: You have been warned before John.
    John, Admins do not debate, they simply point out the guidelines.
    This message has been edited by AdminJar, 03-18-2006 10:39 AM

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 56 by John 10:10, posted 03-18-2006 11:34 AM John 10:10 has not replied

    Rahvin
    Member
    Posts: 4032
    Joined: 07-01-2005
    Member Rating: 9.2


    Message 58 of 302 (296489)
    03-18-2006 2:07 PM
    Reply to: Message 56 by John 10:10
    03-18-2006 11:34 AM


    Re: You have been warned before John.
    OK, show me one intricately complex "man made thing", not a pic of some nature scene, that exists without man first designing and then constructing his design.
    Your logic is flawed. You are asking for a man-made object. By definition, it has to have been made by man. We are actually discussing the natural world, including such structures as found in that "nature scene." You operate exclusively from the perspective that all things, natural or not, must have been created. That is, in fact, what is being debated. Your analogy would work if it was accepted that natural structures have all been "created" as have man-made objects. Since this is not the case, your argument is a house of cards.
    I would ask you, instead, to show me a natural structure, such as the one already provided to you in the previous post, and explain how it must have been designed and created.
    Oh, and, by the way - ever heard of evolutionary computing? No actual human design is involved in the resulting program, and it can wind up being incredibly complex. Basically, we give a computer a goal, and the computer eventually finds a solution by trial and error - much like the evolution of life, where what works is kept, and what doesn't work is discarded. No human designs the resulting solution. I think that fits with a "man-made" structure that has not first been designed.

    Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 56 by John 10:10, posted 03-18-2006 11:34 AM John 10:10 has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 59 by John 10:10, posted 03-18-2006 2:22 PM Rahvin has not replied
     Message 61 by inkorrekt, posted 03-18-2006 6:58 PM Rahvin has not replied

    John 10:10
    Member (Idle past 2996 days)
    Posts: 766
    From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
    Joined: 02-01-2006


    Message 59 of 302 (296495)
    03-18-2006 2:22 PM
    Reply to: Message 58 by Rahvin
    03-18-2006 2:07 PM


    Re: You have been warned before John.
    I was simply pointing out that intricately complex man made things must have been first designed by man's creativity, then put together by man's ability to build what he has has designed.
    The same principle applies to inorganic matter, organic matter, and the universe. To believe that intricately complex inorganic matter, organic matter, and the universe came to be without ID is true folly.

    The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 58 by Rahvin, posted 03-18-2006 2:07 PM Rahvin has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 60 by NosyNed, posted 03-18-2006 2:38 PM John 10:10 has replied
     Message 74 by Parasomnium, posted 03-19-2006 1:54 PM John 10:10 has not replied

    NosyNed
    Member
    Posts: 8996
    From: Canada
    Joined: 04-04-2003


    Message 60 of 302 (296497)
    03-18-2006 2:38 PM
    Reply to: Message 59 by John 10:10
    03-18-2006 2:22 PM


    True Folly
    The same principle applies to inorganic matter, organic matter, and the universe. To believe that intricately complex inorganic matter, organic matter, and the universe came to be without ID is true folly
    It is not folly if one has demonstrated a process which can produce apparent design without a designer. This is the case with biological organisms.
    As far as the universe and inorganic matter the correct answer right now is that how it came about is unknown. If you wish to pin your faith on a question remaining unanswered that is your choice. Many more sophisticated believers consider this to be a very bad choice theological.
    What is unknown in this context is, today, a matter of ultimate origins. Very difficult to grapple with. Your approach to an answer seems to be that of those of the ancient Mediterranean: Thor in his volcano, Zeus throwing lightening bolts and Apollo riding his chariot across the sky each day. Pretty primative from the theological perspective don't you think?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 59 by John 10:10, posted 03-18-2006 2:22 PM John 10:10 has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 63 by John 10:10, posted 03-18-2006 11:02 PM NosyNed has not replied

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