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Author Topic:   The Serpent of Genesis is not the Dragon of Revelations
Phat
Member
Posts: 18333
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 29 of 302 (292279)
03-05-2006 2:57 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by purpledawn
03-03-2006 9:14 PM


Snake or Satan?
Hi, PD! in my translations, the serpent is less indictative as one of the animals.
NIV writes:
Gen 3:1--Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made.
Lets look at a few other translations:
American Standard writes:
Gen 3:1-- Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which Jehovah God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of any tree of the garden?
Im gonna check a few more later....
This in and of itself does not indicate that the serpant was one of the wild animals that the LORD had made. It only indicates that the serpant was smarter than the animals---in a devious sort of way. The serpent talks---something no other animal does...(unless you include humans as animals)
NIV writes:
Gen 3:14-15-- So the LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this,
"Cursed are you above all the livestock
and all the wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel."
So what is it about the bad vibes betwixt the offspring of a mere snake and the offspring of a woman?
And why did God boot the humans out of the Garden and not the snake?
This message has been edited by Phat, 03-05-2006 12:58 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by purpledawn, posted 03-03-2006 9:14 PM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by ReverendDG, posted 03-05-2006 3:06 AM Phat has replied
 Message 34 by purpledawn, posted 03-05-2006 7:40 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 156 by jaywill, posted 03-15-2006 6:32 PM Phat has not replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18333
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 31 of 302 (292281)
03-05-2006 3:09 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by ReverendDG
03-05-2006 3:06 AM


Reptilian Rationality
The snake and the dragon are both symbolic. It would appear, however, that they both represent the same vibe. Its that pesky dungeons and dragons freethinking vibe that never wants to listen to Major Dad!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by ReverendDG, posted 03-05-2006 3:06 AM ReverendDG has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by ReverendDG, posted 03-05-2006 3:32 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 33 by Brad McFall, posted 03-05-2006 7:28 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 40 by ringo, posted 03-05-2006 10:58 AM Phat has not replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18333
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 207 of 302 (296734)
03-20-2006 7:08 AM
Reply to: Message 206 by purpledawn
03-20-2006 7:01 AM


Re: Not a General Discussion on Serpents
PD writes:
After a closer look since this thread started I don’t think it represents Satan (a supernatural enemy of God) but an earthly adversary of whoever the woman represents.
Wow! All this purple logic! Dazzling!
OK so if the walking snake is an "earthly adversary of who the woman represents, could we surmize that she represented no one?
  • She was not able to represent God as she was unaware of His Spirit.
  • She may have represented herself, but did she really understand who she was in life---apart from the "helpmate" of Adam?
    This message has been edited by Phat, 03-20-2006 05:09 AM

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 206 by purpledawn, posted 03-20-2006 7:01 AM purpledawn has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 208 by purpledawn, posted 03-20-2006 7:20 AM Phat has replied

    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18333
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 209 of 302 (296738)
    03-20-2006 7:28 AM
    Reply to: Message 208 by purpledawn
    03-20-2006 7:20 AM


    Plain Text meanings
    PD writes:
    I'm not really sure what you are asking about the plain text of the Genesis story.
    That brings up a good point.
    What were the authors intending to convey?
  • Were they drawing on the stories and legends that they heard from others? (Much as many of us do today as well...second hand traditions, interpretations, and information)
  • If they were drawing on such sources, can we gather that a cohesive zeitgeist was being discussed? Or was there controversy even then?
    This message has been edited by Phat, 03-20-2006 05:29 AM

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 208 by purpledawn, posted 03-20-2006 7:20 AM purpledawn has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 210 by purpledawn, posted 03-20-2006 7:40 AM Phat has replied
     Message 218 by Mr. Ex Nihilo, posted 03-20-2006 7:13 PM Phat has not replied

    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18333
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 265 of 302 (298021)
    03-25-2006 9:03 AM
    Reply to: Message 210 by purpledawn
    03-20-2006 7:40 AM


    Re: Plain Text meanings
    brennakimi writes:
    revelation is clearly a purposeful incantation of ancient mythologies meant to convey a certain immediate point. whether this point is the fall of rome under nero or some other, it is certainly not consistent with the rest of the bible and most definitely not consistent with the rest of jesus' teachings. if nothing else, it is the completion of the attempt to meld jesus with the promised military savior that the jewish messiah was supposed to be. it is a weak and bizarre rebuttal.
    Purpledawn writes:
    Given that there was roughly 700 years between the Isaiah verse and John's vision, a lot changes over time.
    Just because a dragon/serpent is used to symbolize Satan in John’s vision, doesn’t make the serpent/snake in the Garden, Satan.
    Sometimes a snake is just a snake.
    I am questioning the idea of Biblical literalism in my own personal walk of faith. Despite what many literalists say, there does seem to be sketchy details surrounding the early stories of Genesis and the much later books of the New Testament. Many philosophical concepts are introduced in the Bible, and many other philosophical concepts have been discussed throughout the history of humanity.
    People liken the snake and the story of the Fall as indicative of the concept of free will. Maybe the snake was "just a snake", but regardless whether Genesis was literal or a symbolic collection of early writings, it can be argued that the ideas and cultural yearnings of that day and age were adequately explained in the first book of the Bible and that a foundation for faith was suggested.
    RC Sproul writes:
    There can be no doubt that human beings do make choices. I am choosing to write, you are choosing to read. I will to write, and writing is set in motion. When the idea of freedom is added, however, the issue becomes terribly complicated...Even the most ardent Calvinist would not deny that the will is free to choose whatever it desires. Even the most ardent Arminian would agree that the will is not free to choose what it does not desire.
    If the snake is just a snake, and the stories are just stories, the philosophies and questions of the early authors will be discussed and pondered for generations from now.
  • We know that the authors of Genesis were many many years removed from the author(s) of Revelation.
  • We do not know the events that inspired the authors to record what they had observed or were taught. Literalists assume that the entire Bible was inspired by One Spirit. Genesis may have been written for us if the authors intended folk to read it.
    Similarly, Revelation may have been written for folk to read. But were these books...(and the snake...and the Dragon...) written as stories to our souls and questing hunger for spiritual enlightenment?
    This message has been edited by Phat, 03-25-2006 07:21 AM

    Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart, and through all human hearts. This line shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years. Even within hearts overwhelmed by evil, one small bridgehead of good is retained; and even in the best of all hearts, there remains a small corner of evil. --Alexander Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago

  • This message is a reply to:
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