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EvC Forum ⇒ Science Forums ⇒ The Bible: Accuracy and Inerrancy ⇒

Prophecy of Messiah: Isaiah 7

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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004

jar Posts Only
Message 196 of 202 (296684)
03-19-2006 11:17 PM 		Reply to: Message 193 by Buzsaw
03-19-2006 10:21 PM

Re: Not just wilfully ignoring verses but
The actual texts from Isaiah 7 are included in my Message 186 for all to read.
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The readers can decide who is being insulting here.
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I notice that you never include the texts but rather just quotemine them ignoring parts that refute your position.
​
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by Buzsaw, posted 03-19-2006 10:21 PM Buzsaw has not replied
  
jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004

jar Posts Only
Message 197 of 202 (296685)
03-19-2006 11:17 PM 		Reply to: Message 194 by Buzsaw
03-19-2006 10:41 PM

Re: The Events Of The Prophecy
The actual texts from Isaiah 7 are included in my Message 186 for all to read.
​
The readers can decide who is being insulting here.
​
I notice that you never include the texts but rather just quotemine them ignoring parts that refute your position.
​
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by Buzsaw, posted 03-19-2006 10:41 PM Buzsaw has not replied
  
jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004

jar Posts Only
Message 198 of 202 (296686)
03-19-2006 11:18 PM 		Reply to: Message 195 by Buzsaw
03-19-2006 11:06 PM

Re: the classic reverse strawman fallacy
The actual texts from Isaiah 7 are included in my Message 186 for all to read.
​
The readers can decide who is being insulting here.
​
I notice that you never include the texts but rather just quotemine them ignoring parts that refute your position.
​
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by Buzsaw, posted 03-19-2006 11:06 PM Buzsaw has not replied
  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1365 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004

arachnophilia Posts Only
Message 199 of 202 (296687)
03-19-2006 11:50 PM 		Reply to: Message 195 by Buzsaw
03-19-2006 11:06 PM

Re: the classic reverse strawman fallacy
Read the text.
1. The Lord, not the King of Assyria, does the shaving.
2. The shaving text is quite ambiguous as to exactly what it means, but in context it appears to be related to the desolation of the land involving the King of Assyria with just what that involvement is being what is ambiguous. "That is hired in the parts beyond the river with the King of Assyria" The previous verse as well as verses following all deal with the desolation of the land of Assyria and the region in general.
3. Factoring in all the verses of the prophecy with the repetition of the phrase "in that day" applied to the growing in of "thorns and briers" et al, there's no way you can apply it to the short term there and then.
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buz, this is pointless.
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i asked a simple question of clarification. you said that the prophecies include the end times in response to a question about when some event happened. i don't care about the event, or the semantics, or whatever excuse you're using to dodge my simple little question. i'm not even trying to make some snarky point here. i was just verifying what you're saying.
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has it happened yet? or will it happen in the end times? is it fulfilled, or does it still remain to be fulfilled.
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by Buzsaw, posted 03-19-2006 11:06 PM Buzsaw has not replied
  
DeclinetoState
Member (Idle past 6459 days)
Posts: 158
Joined: 01-16-2006

DeclinetoState Posts Only
Message 200 of 202 (296693)
03-20-2006 1:55 AM 		Reply to: Message 190 by PaulK
03-19-2006 6:02 PM

Re: Matthew claims fulfillment of Isaiah's prophecy
PaulK writes:
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The Bible itself never claims to be the literal Word of God. At most some parts of it are claimed to be - typically prophets repeating messages that they say were sent to them from God.
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Can you find one book in the Bible which is clearly written as if God were the author ? It's not hard to find books which were written as if a human writer were the primary author - and Isaiah is one of them.
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The claim is that the "human" authors wrote entirely under divine inspiration; therefore, their words are perfect. This gets difficult when one notes discrepancies and inconsistencies even in supposedly pristine texts (i.e., texts that don't show errors in copying or transmission).
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Herepton's comment that there are no errors is, of course, difficult if not impossible to defend if one looks carefully at many Bible passages, such as those in the N.T. that quote from the O.T. (such as Matthew's quote from Isaiah 7), or even when comparing passages in Chronicles with those in Samuel and Kings.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by PaulK, posted 03-19-2006 6:02 PM PaulK has replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 201 by PaulK, posted 03-20-2006 2:44 AM DeclinetoState has replied
  
PaulK
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Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2

PaulK Posts Only
Message 201 of 202 (296706)
03-20-2006 2:44 AM 		Reply to: Message 200 by DeclinetoState
03-20-2006 1:55 AM

Re: Matthew claims fulfillment of Isaiah's prophecy
quote:
The claim is that the "human" authors wrote entirely under divine inspiration; therefore, their words are perfect. This gets difficult when one notes discrepancies and inconsistencies even in supposedly pristine texts (i.e., texts that don't show errors in copying or transmission).
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As I remember, Paul corrects himself in one of the epistles. If he was writing under perfect divine inspiration why would he make a mistake ?
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And how many of the writers actually claim to be writing under direct divine inspiration ?
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All they have is 2 Timothy 3:16. And there are numerous problems in interpreting that as they do. From the vagueness of the statement to the question of authorship to the fact that it does not claim to be scripture or clearly identify which books it does refer to (if Paul wrote it he would ahve to mean the Septuagint and not a single NT book)..
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This message has been edited by AdminJar, 03-20-2006 08:47 AM
This message is a reply to:
 Message 200 by DeclinetoState, posted 03-20-2006 1:55 AM DeclinetoState has replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 202 by DeclinetoState, posted 03-20-2006 12:48 PM PaulK has not replied
  
DeclinetoState
Member (Idle past 6459 days)
Posts: 158
Joined: 01-16-2006

DeclinetoState Posts Only
Message 202 of 202 (296794)
03-20-2006 12:48 PM 		Reply to: Message 201 by PaulK
03-20-2006 2:44 AM

Re: Matthew claims fulfillment of Isaiah's prophecy
All they have is 2 Timothy 3:16. And there are numerous problems in interpreting that as they do. From the vagueness of the statement to the question of authorship to the fact that it does not claim to be scripture or clearly identify which books it does refer to (if Paul wrote it he would ahve to mean the Septuagint and not a single NT book)..
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Some claim that 2 Timothy itself was not inspired, and therefore should not considered "Scripture." Even if we accept the passage as itself being inspired, PaulK's comment then leaves us to wonder: Did Paul (or whoever wrote 2 Timothy) also have in mind the Apocrypha, which was (presumably) a large part of the Old Testament extant at the time?
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In other words, appealing to 2 Timothy to solve the questions of Isaiah 7, as attractive as that may be at first, tends to open up another proverbial can of worms.
This message is a reply to:
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