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Author Topic:   New Big Bang Theory
yzend1
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 25 (13874)
07-20-2002 7:55 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by TrueCreation
07-20-2002 4:35 PM


Perhaps I should say:-
"Somewhere along the line" you should have nothing, from which all is created.
At the end of the day there are three possible lines of thought:-
1. God created
2. It was a natural phenomena
3. Intelligences 'within' created or controlled the 'nothing'.
I'm interested in exploring 3.
As far as the equation goes.....
-1+1=0 is the same as 0=-1+1
This isn't wishful thinking, I doing my best to try and create a reasonable and sound view on reality or computer simulations of possible realities. Computer simulations may be helpful to our understanding to reality, or interesting in their own right.
Questions are interesting things but some are not so easy to answer (yet).
Q1. Was time created from nothing?
Q2. Is time a two way process?
Q3. If space is expanding, what is it expanding into?
It's really mind boggling that we have 1 to 5 billion years left on this planet, many billions more if we go inhabitable planet hopping. Just think of all the possibilities that will be achieved using the scientific method. We are but at it's infancy. Answers too are but at their infancy.
Q4. Is there a deadline?
Q5. Is society optimized?
A. So, somewhere along the line there was nothing.
B. Along the same line was intelligence.
Q6. What is the relationship between A and B?
Yzend1

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by TrueCreation, posted 07-20-2002 4:35 PM TrueCreation has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by yzend1, posted 07-21-2002 12:20 PM yzend1 has replied

  
yzend1
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 25 (13886)
07-21-2002 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by yzend1
07-20-2002 7:55 PM


The case for brain surgery
Lets face it, we're all going to die, and it seems to me the jury's out as to whether God created the universe, the universe was created by a natural phemomena, or whether intelligences created themselves by creating the universe. Hence, it seems to me that the sensible thing to do is to take the worst case scenario and prepare. This means creating our own man-made heaven and eternal bodies.
I think a man-made heaven will be required since (from what I understand), the law of entropy will cause the universe to reach a state where life is unable to survive. Hence, with our present and future scientific knowledge we could possible design and implement a man-made heaven and eternal bodies. All we need to do then is transfer the consciousness of ever living being that ever existed to these man-made bodies in the man-made heaven for eternity. (I am assuming that in the future there is the possibility that time travel will be possible.)
In order to transfer the consciousness from the body of this earthly realm to the man-made heaven realm, many, perhaps millions of live volunteers will be required to donate themselves for brain surgery in order for scientists to understand the mind and perfect a means whereby the consciousness can be transferred to an eternal body.
Once this is achieved, then perhaps in the last nanosecond of life, consciousness will be transferred to the awaiting man-made heaven?
The alternative is to have blind faith in God and Heaven or Hell, which may result in nothing but death. I wouldn't expect God to be annoyed at us mortals for 'going for it', since it seems to be the logical thing to do.
Perhaps once citizens of earth have reached retirement, they could then donate themselves. This way, surgery wouldn't affect society's working progress.
I for one would be willing to donate my self for brain surgery. It's worth a shot and it's best to be prepared. We do have a deadline. The univers won't support life indefinetly.
Are you with me?
yzend1

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by yzend1, posted 07-20-2002 7:55 PM yzend1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by yzend1, posted 07-21-2002 1:06 PM yzend1 has replied

  
yzend1
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 25 (13888)
07-21-2002 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by yzend1
07-21-2002 12:20 PM


The case for optimizing society
From what I see of the world, there seems to be an awful lot of wastage. Third world countries uneducated.
Lets say there were two pharmicutacal companies employing 10 researchers each, designing drugs for AIDS. Would it not be better for the 2 companies to join forces, share research knowledge, and have 20 researchers designing drugs for AIDS. Otherwise the 2 companies would possibly duplicate research. Also, part of the equipment their using would also be duplicated, eg, supercomputers.
Another example would be the space agencies. Again by joining forces this would no doubt reduce duplication of research, design and manufacturing.
Another example would be programmers. If there was one worldwide programming organisation, surely this would be, for similar reasons, more optimized.
The examples go on :- chip manufactures, medical equipment manufactures, etc, etc.
If society was more organised, where the common aim was to create a second stage of reality for all (man-made heaven), then there would surely be more chance of meeting the deadline the universe places upon us?
So, I'm for setting up a research body, whose aim is to optimize society, yielding maximum researchers for achieving an understanding of what makes the universe tick, and for achieving a man-made heaven for all.
Just because capitalism has been around since the birth of money doesn't mean it results in the most optimized society.
yzend1
[This message has been edited by yzend1, 07-21-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by yzend1, posted 07-21-2002 12:20 PM yzend1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by yzend1, posted 07-21-2002 1:29 PM yzend1 has not replied

  
yzend1
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 25 (13889)
07-21-2002 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by yzend1
07-21-2002 1:06 PM


In society we all play different roles. Just as I would not attempt to perform brain surgery, likewise I wouldn't try to explain to you all how reality works. I kind of specialise in other areas. But I do have an interest in reality. All I can do with my limited knowledge is offer a new possibility (the new big bang theory & man-made heaven theory). These are of course unproved, like much else in reality. Nevertheless, I hope you take them onboard. If society takes the appropiate steps, then perhaps one day they may be proven true.
In a sense, the most interesting day will be the day that I die. Will I find myself somewhere, and if so where. God's Heaven or Hell? A man or alien made heaven or hell? It is interesting and amusing. Something to look forward to.
yzend1

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by yzend1, posted 07-21-2002 1:06 PM yzend1 has not replied

  
RedVento
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 25 (15102)
08-09-2002 1:57 PM


Isn't there a flaw with this entire wandering? I was under the impression that the theory about the Big Bang was that all the matter in the known universe was contained in a singularity? And did not materialize from nothing.
But this whole thing makes me think of proving I dont exist with a simple statement.. "I think not, therefore I am not."
But just to get involved let me through another loophole into the whole big-bang machine thingy.. There is an obvious paradox in the thought of going back in time to create yourself. If there is nothing in the past then there can be no you in the future to go back in time to make you. This would also go for God, since God is "something" if you accept there is a god at all. If there was no god in the past, then god couldn't create himself/herself out of nothing, in order to create us. Its a rather amusing proposition to ponder actually..

  
blitz77
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 25 (15129)
08-10-2002 8:38 AM


The main problem I see is that it is circular reasoning-humans caused humans to exist. Let me give an analogy. You have a drunk person who can't support himself. So therefore, he has to hang on to someone else to stay up. However, he has to hang on to someone else. So you create a loop/circle. However there is still one problem-there is the ground they stand on!

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by halcyonwaters, posted 08-11-2002 7:36 PM blitz77 has replied

  
halcyonwaters
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 25 (15219)
08-11-2002 7:36 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by blitz77
08-10-2002 8:38 AM


quote:
Originally posted by blitz77:
The main problem I see is that it is circular reasoning-humans caused humans to exist. Let me give an analogy. You have a drunk person who can't support himself. So therefore, he has to hang on to someone else to stay up. However, he has to hang on to someone else. So you create a loop/circle. However there is still one problem-there is the ground they stand on!
Haven't you ever seen Terminator II? That movie showed it's possible. Dr. Miles Bison finds micro-chip and T-800 Arm, and uses it to develop a new processor. Processor is used to create weapons of war, which eventually turn on their creators. In the future, one of these machines is sent back in time to kill off a war hero in that future. It is destroyed, and an arm and microchip eventually make their way to Dr. Bison. Who then uses it to develo...
David

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by blitz77, posted 08-10-2002 8:38 AM blitz77 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by blitz77, posted 08-12-2002 4:49 AM halcyonwaters has not replied

  
blitz77
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 25 (15261)
08-12-2002 4:49 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by halcyonwaters
08-11-2002 7:36 PM


Aha--but what does time depend on? So you are assuming that time existed before the beginning? Without time, someone can't go back in time to make time. Anyway, even without this argument, you still have the paradox of causality, among other time travel paradoxes-which normally is solved using a multiverse, however, with a multiverse you can't go back in time to change the past of your own universe.
[This message has been edited by blitz77, 08-14-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by halcyonwaters, posted 08-11-2002 7:36 PM halcyonwaters has not replied

  
windwip
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 25 (28893)
01-12-2003 1:12 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by yzend1
07-14-2002 6:01 PM


I do not think the universe could have come into existence without an intelligent being creating it. If there was nothing before the Big Bang, then there would be no reason for the Big Bang to happen, and hence the universe would not exist. However, the universe does indeed exist, so there must have been an intelligence who created it.
-Ok, first of all there was something before the big bang, the universe expands then retracts when the masses' gravity pulls them back together. Matter cannot be created or destroyed, so there obviously was something before the BB, the idea that it came from nothing is absured.
-Second the reasoning you give behind a need for an intelligent being is because the universe exists. I'm sorry, but that is not a reason. The laws of nature give reasoning behind why things happen, but they are created through characteristics of atoms themselves, they are not a law laid down by some god. There is scientific reasoning behind everything wether we have found it yet or not.
In the future, will organised intelligence be clever enough to design a machine from the existing ‘designed’ reality with it’s existing ‘designed’ properties, that will actually generate, from nothing, a universe of these same designed properties? It is assumed
that time is a designed property and that it’s manipulative, in order to allow the Big Bang Machine to be sent back to the beginning (year dot).
-We can't travel back in time and we can't create or destroy matter.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by yzend1, posted 07-14-2002 6:01 PM yzend1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by yzend1, posted 01-20-2003 2:39 PM windwip has not replied

  
yzend1
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 25 (29681)
01-20-2003 2:39 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by windwip
01-12-2003 1:12 AM


[QUOTE]Originally posted by windwip:
-We can't travel back in time and we can't create or destroy matter. [/B][/QUOTE]
We can't travel back in time YET...
AND
We can't generate space-time-matter YET
But one day we may all be in for a BIG SURPRISE........a man-made heaven, man-made eternal bodies, man-made eternal lives. And we may also find ourselves (humans/aliens) generating the Big Bang.
Your not God so where's your proof that it won't happen.
yzend1
All we'vr got to do is to try and design this scenario. Apart from feeding and educating all people, what else is more urgent and necessary.
[This message has been edited by yzend1, 01-20-2003]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by windwip, posted 01-12-2003 1:12 AM windwip has not replied

  
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