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Author
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Topic: Is it 'boring' being God?
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Silent H
Member (Idle past 5841 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: 12-11-2002
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Re: God? Are You Bored, yet? No.
righteous anger is part of love, thats how you tell someone that they are wrong and make sure they know you mean it.
So burning people in hell fire for eternity for not understanding they should love the God that created them and gave them a shitty temporal life, is just God "loving" them? What a twist.
when did this happen?
I just went through this a few posts back! Pay attention: God was wrestling and was not able to win using strength (that's what the Bible says) and so he cheated and disjointed the man's hip using magic. Thus his power was limited and he cheated.
when you have a dictator, you say he is a dictator whether he will do something or not.
Yeah but, you can't call him infinitely powerful once he allows another person to have some autonomy. Keep your eye on the point of discussion. This is a perfect example of where you try to shift discussion to something else.
Yes we have the power to counter his plans, I never had it any other way.
IF we can counter his plans THEN he cannot be infinitely powerful. There's simply no way of getting around that.
He knew that he would not get all he wanted, but there was no other way for him to get any of what he wanted IF he couldn't get ALL he wanted, THEN he was not ALL powerful. He is by definition limited in some way.
holmes "What you need is sustained outrage...there's far too much unthinking respect given to authority." (M.Ivins)
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dorkfrommarn
Inactive Member
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Re: This might be slightly off-topic but....
No, God knew what was going to happen in advance, and instead of taking into account that people would not do as he wanted, he went ahead and made the system knowing what the result was going to be. I guess in that case you can't call it a failure on God's part, since he knew what would happen, and so it must be part of his "plan", but it is pretty clearly a flawed plan. I can't think of any sort of criterion that would label this as a "success". result do not determine whether the plan was a good one. look if you don't want to accept my logic nothing is gonna make you. so it is obviously pointless explaning something no matter how well to you.
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 199 by Chiroptera, posted 02-17-2006 5:22 PM | | dorkfrommarn has not replied |
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dorkfrommarn
Inactive Member
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Message 198 of 207 (287799)
02-17-2006 5:12 PM
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Reply to: Message 196 by Silent H
02-17-2006 4:40 PM
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Re: God? Are You Bored, yet? No.
So burning people in hell fire for eternity for not understanding they should love the God that created them and gave them a shitty temporal life, is just God "loving" them? What a twist. the world is unfair we made it that way God will not stop it because of free will
I just went through this a few posts back! Pay attention: God was wrestling and was not able to win using strength (that's what the Bible says) and so he cheated and disjointed the man's hip using magic. Thus his power was limited and he cheated. when there are no rules you cannot cheat. his physical strength was limited, we discussed this a few post back also. It was a man that attacked hi.
Yeah but, you can't call him infinitely powerful once he allows another person to have some autonomy. Keep your eye on the point of discussion. This is a perfect example of where you try to shift discussion to something else. I say he is great, you say he is not because he will not do some things, I say this does not actually dimish his power and give a example. How is this off topic?
IF we can counter his plans THEN he cannot be infinitely powerful. There's simply no way of getting around that. we already went over this.
IF he couldn't get ALL he wanted, THEN he was not ALL powerful. He is by definition limited in some way. he could force us to love him, but that would go against his good nature and he would become......well lets just say its pretty disturbing. we already went over will not and cannot. this is getting really boring, if you have any new arguments feel free to email me but for now I think its pretty pointless to keep this up
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 196 by Silent H, posted 02-17-2006 4:40 PM | | Silent H has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 200 by Silent H, posted 02-18-2006 5:32 AM | | dorkfrommarn has not replied |
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Chiroptera
Inactive Member
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Re: This might be slightly off-topic but....
quote:
result do not determine whether the plan was a good one.
Here on earth results are the main criteria used to judge plans. In fact, the purpose of plans is to effect desired results. Before even being implemented the foreseeable results are considered, and atttempts are made to figure out any unintended consequences. During the running of the plan, results are analyzed in order to determine whether the plan needs to be modified or even terminated. After the plan has been run, the plan is evaluated by examining how well it met its intended objectives as well as looking at the severity of the unintended consequences. Not only do results determine whether a plan is a good one, there aren't any other criteria. Is it different on your planet? -
quote:
look if you don't want to accept my logic nothing is gonna make you. so it is obviously pointless explaning something no matter how well to you.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I tried to give you an out by pointing out that your position could not be argued logically. That you insist that you have somehow "explained things well" shows that your reasoning abilities are somewhat underdeveloped. It't too bad that you don't wish to continue this conversation. One could actually make a thought-provoking conversation out of this. Too bad you don't feel up to it.
"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt
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Silent H
Member (Idle past 5841 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: 12-11-2002
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Re: God? Are You Bored, yet? No.
the world is unfair we made it that way God will not stop it because of free will
HE created the world. And if he was infinitely wise as you said, then he knew it would be unfair, thus he created an unfair world. Your defense appears to be that's okay because it was the only way to get what he wanted, though that is not actually a defense and you have not explained why an infinite being wants or needs anything MORE.
when there are no rules you cannot cheat. his physical strength was limited, we discussed this a few post back also. It was a man that attacked hi.
??? So you don't read your own Bible? For shame! Here it is in full from Genesis 32...
32:22 And he rose up that night, and took his two wives, and his two womenservants, and his eleven sons, and passed over the ford Jabbok.
32:23 And he took them, and sent them over the brook, and sent over that he had.
32:24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.
32:25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him
32:26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.
32:27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.
32:28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
32:29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.
32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
32:31 And as he passed over Peniel the sun rose upon him, and he halted upon his thigh
32:32 Therefore the children of Israel eat not of the sinew which shrank, which is upon the hollow of the thigh, unto this day: because he touched the hollow of Jacob's thigh in the sinew that shrank. If that is too hard, here is a link to the story in picture form. In no way does it suggest that someone attacked God, and God admits that the man was as strong as God, he wrestled with God and prevailed. Heck, I had forgotten that even after displacing the man's hip, God STILL LOST. I'm not sure how you are going to attempt to explain this away, but it ought to be interesting. That isn't me you are arguing with now, it is the Bible and God.
he could force us to love him, but that would go against his good nature and he would become......well lets just say its pretty disturbing.
That's right it is worse that he force us to love him, than to punish us for eternity for failing to love him in exactly the way he wants in order to terrorize others into loving him. That's not disturbing in the least. This message has been edited by holmes, 02-18-2006 11:34 AM
holmes "What you need is sustained outrage...there's far too much unthinking respect given to authority." (M.Ivins)
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Chiroptera
Inactive Member
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Message 201 of 207 (288054)
02-18-2006 10:42 AM
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Reply to: Message 200 by Silent H
02-18-2006 5:32 AM
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Re: God? Are You Bored, yet? No.
quote:
Your defense appears to be that's okay because it was the only way to get what he wanted, though that is not actually a defense and you have not explained why an infinite being wants or needs anything MORE.
By "not actually a defense" I assume you are questioning why this being's wants, infinite he may be, should be considered more important than anyone else's?
"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 200 by Silent H, posted 02-18-2006 5:32 AM | | Silent H has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 202 by Silent H, posted 02-18-2006 11:21 AM | | Chiroptera has not replied |
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Silent H
Member (Idle past 5841 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: 12-11-2002
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Re: God? Are You Bored, yet? No.
I assume you are questioning why this being's wants, infinite he may be, should be considered more important Yep, when do one's desires justify one's actions against others?
holmes "What you need is sustained outrage...there's far too much unthinking respect given to authority." (M.Ivins)
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 201 by Chiroptera, posted 02-18-2006 10:42 AM | | Chiroptera has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 203 by Phat, posted 02-18-2006 11:26 AM | | Silent H has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18300 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 203 of 207 (288068)
02-18-2006 11:26 AM
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Reply to: Message 202 by Silent H
02-18-2006 11:21 AM
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Re: God? Are You Bored, yet? No.
holmes writes: Yep, when do one's desires justify one's actions against others? Uuuh...maybe when you are the Boss? Suffice it to say that He made humans with the inborn trait of questioning, disagreeing, and/or ignoring His presence. So...our options? 1) Take it up with Him. 2) Ignore His reality and set your own rules at your own responsiblity and risk.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 202 by Silent H, posted 02-18-2006 11:21 AM | | Silent H has replied |
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Chiroptera
Inactive Member
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Message 204 of 207 (288078)
02-18-2006 12:05 PM
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Reply to: Message 203 by Phat
02-18-2006 11:26 AM
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Re: God? Are You Bored, yet? No.
quote:
Uuuh...maybe when you are the Boss?
Well, yes, one can certainly set the rules and force other people to obey them when one has the power to punish those who disobey; and I suppose that an omnipotent being (or even one whose potency isn't quite omni) can certainly punish humans for not obeying them. But this is rule by thuggery. What is being asked here is what justifies all this, beyond just raw power.
"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 203 by Phat, posted 02-18-2006 11:26 AM | | Phat has not replied |
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Silent H
Member (Idle past 5841 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: 12-11-2002
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Message 205 of 207 (288087)
02-18-2006 12:23 PM
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Reply to: Message 203 by Phat
02-18-2006 11:26 AM
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Re: God? Are You Bored, yet? No.
Uuuh...maybe when you are the Boss?
Chiro beat me to the punch, but a good point is worth repeating. Your answer is an explanation why he got to make it the way it is, not a justification for why he did what he did.
inborn trait of questioning, disagreeing, and/or ignoring His presence.
Did he give us logic and a sense of justice? Where am I going wrong in feeling that being boss does not justify all means to achieving one's whims?
Ignore His reality and set your own rules at your own responsiblity and risk.
So if I become boss somewhere I should believe it is just to treat those below as means to my pleasure?
holmes "What you need is sustained outrage...there's far too much unthinking respect given to authority." (M.Ivins)
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 203 by Phat, posted 02-18-2006 11:26 AM | | Phat has not replied |
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2ice_baked_taters
Member (Idle past 5872 days) Posts: 566 From: Boulder Junction WI. Joined: 02-16-2006
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Message 206 of 207 (288488)
02-19-2006 11:58 PM
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So this forum is for those who will only entertain the view of a jewish/christian/muslim God?
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 207 by ReverendDG, posted 03-21-2006 2:17 AM | | 2ice_baked_taters has not replied |
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ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4132 days) Posts: 1119 From: Topeka,kansas Joined: 06-06-2005
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monotheists only?
i would say it is, only because the three main religions have conflicts with everyone else, most pagan and non-monothiestic religions do not have very many problems with other peoples beliefs, only time really is when they are attacked as evil or satanic as for hindus from what i understand ( I could be wrong) but they believe religious figures such as jesus are avatars of gods This message has been edited by ReverendDG, 03-21-2006 02:18 AM
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