Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,815 Year: 3,072/9,624 Month: 917/1,588 Week: 100/223 Day: 11/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Intelligent Design explains many follies
nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 151 of 302 (297671)
03-23-2006 9:41 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by John 10:10
03-23-2006 9:23 AM


Re: Definitions
If you are going to quote me, quote me in context. Here is what I said;
"True science is the study of cause and effect. We can study the things that exist. Where we can know how they function and understand/prove cause/effect, that is science that belongs in the science classroom."
Science studies a lot more than cause and effect.
The Theory of Evolution does not do this!
Sure it does. Evolutionary biologists spend a lot of time studying cellular processes involved in reproduction, the processes that cause evolution.
As for how Christians worship God, ...
Don't take my comment on that too seriously. I was just teasing you about your attempt to dictate to scientists what science is.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by John 10:10, posted 03-23-2006 9:23 AM John 10:10 has not replied

John 10:10
Member (Idle past 2995 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 152 of 302 (297767)
03-24-2006 9:32 AM


I'm very sorry, but I can't respond to your posts any further. The Administrators here have stated that I have not supported my ID views with evidence. It doesn't seem to matter that those who do not believe in ID can't do it either.
I bid you adieu.

The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by crashfrog, posted 03-24-2006 9:34 AM John 10:10 has not replied
 Message 159 by Modulous, posted 03-24-2006 3:18 PM John 10:10 has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 153 of 302 (297768)
03-24-2006 9:34 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by John 10:10
03-24-2006 9:32 AM


It doesn't seem to matter that those who do not believe in ID can't do it either.
If that were true, it would matter. But that statement is, unforunately, a falsehood.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by John 10:10, posted 03-24-2006 9:32 AM John 10:10 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 154 by sidelined, posted 03-24-2006 11:09 AM crashfrog has replied

sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 154 of 302 (297785)
03-24-2006 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 153 by crashfrog
03-24-2006 9:34 AM


Crashfrog
John 10:10 writes:
I bid you adieu.
Gee, Froggy, another one bites the dust. I suppose it is just as well since his arguements were going nowhere anyway. Good thing he has electrical engineering to fall back on.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by crashfrog, posted 03-24-2006 9:34 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by crashfrog, posted 03-24-2006 11:55 AM sidelined has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 155 of 302 (297791)
03-24-2006 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 154 by sidelined
03-24-2006 11:09 AM


Gee, Froggy, another one bites the dust. I suppose it is just as well since his arguements were going nowhere anyway. Good thing he has electrical engineering to fall back on.
You know, I don't believe I would hire an electrical engineer, or any other technical professional, that contested the theory of evolution. Just as I wouldn't hire a flat-earth cartographer, or have my air conditioner fixed by someone who cleaved to the phlogiston model. Some positions are so at odds with factual evidence that one simply has to question the technical competency of such an adherent, particularly in other fields that mandate familiarity with reality. (I'd hire a flat-earth creationist painter to paint my garage, for instance.)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by sidelined, posted 03-24-2006 11:09 AM sidelined has not replied

John 10:10
Member (Idle past 2995 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 156 of 302 (297810)
03-24-2006 1:42 PM


FYI:
Since you seem to have trouble reading and understanding my resume, as you have had trouble reading and understanding everything else I've said, I said I have degree in "Engineering Physics," not Electrical Engineering. I have also spent 41 years in the nuclear energy business, both commercial and DOE.
Even though I contest the "Theory of Evolution" every opportunity I get, I have had no difficulty whatsoever getting and maintaining my work in the nuclear energy business.
But I seriously doubt if any of you could make it where I've been.
When all is said and done, we'll see who bites the dust that God has made.
Now I bid you adiue.

The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10

Replies to this message:
 Message 157 by sidelined, posted 03-24-2006 2:30 PM John 10:10 has not replied
 Message 158 by crashfrog, posted 03-24-2006 2:52 PM John 10:10 has not replied
 Message 163 by ramoss, posted 03-27-2006 12:51 PM John 10:10 has not replied

sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 157 of 302 (297834)
03-24-2006 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 156 by John 10:10
03-24-2006 1:42 PM


John 10:10
My error and my apologies for the error.However you have failed to answer me on a question I asked about your statement here.
John 10:10 writes:
These are your words, not mine. I have a degree in Engineering Physics and understand the laws of nuclear physics and how atoms behave
I then asked you a question concerning the nature of atoms here
sidelined writes:
Really? When an electron emits a photon where does the photon come from?
I ask this to determine where your degree of certainty lays since you imply that your knowledge of atoms and nuclear physics allows you to observe and prove things. This is a result of the statement you earlier made here.
John 10:10 writes:
Where I draw the line is in applying what we can actually observe and prove today, and declare that this definitely proves what happened in the past when it comes to understanding how organic and inorganic matter came to exist.
I would ask you to give us an answer however you have bid us adieu a second time and thus need not back up your claims. Sorry to here about that but you are an adult and the choice to respond or fade away is yours.
This message has been edited by sidelined, Fri, 2006-03-24 12:30 PM

Science alone of all the subjects contains within itself the lesson of the danger of belief in the infallibility of the greatest teachers in the preceding generation . . .Learn from science that you must doubt the experts. As a matter of fact, I can also define science another way: Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts.
Richard Feynman

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by John 10:10, posted 03-24-2006 1:42 PM John 10:10 has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 158 of 302 (297837)
03-24-2006 2:52 PM
Reply to: Message 156 by John 10:10
03-24-2006 1:42 PM


Even though I contest the "Theory of Evolution" every opportunity I get, I have had no difficulty whatsoever getting and maintaining my work in the nuclear energy business.
I'm sure that's great for you. My knowledge of evolution has landed me six-figure employment in a variety of positions in my field (computational protenomics) for several decades, now.
As far as you know. I mean, hell, it's not like someone could fabricate a fictitous degree and employment history on the internet. Honestly, who's ever heard of such an outlandish idea?
When all is said and done, we'll see who bites the dust that God has made.
Ah, yes. The threats. Always the sign of a truly insightful intellect.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by John 10:10, posted 03-24-2006 1:42 PM John 10:10 has not replied

Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 159 of 302 (297841)
03-24-2006 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 152 by John 10:10
03-24-2006 9:32 AM


Supporting positions
As I said way back in Message 72, you are in the Intelligent Design forum where the ID side puts its position forward (and attempts to support it). It is also where people post their criticisms of ID. Cosmology gets the same treatment in Big Bang and Cosmology, evolution in Biological Evolution, dating methods in Dates and Dating, geology in Geology and the Great Flood and abiogenesis in Origin of Life.
If you want the other side to support their position with evidence, take your concerns to those forums.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by John 10:10, posted 03-24-2006 9:32 AM John 10:10 has not replied

John 10:10
Member (Idle past 2995 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 160 of 302 (298623)
03-27-2006 10:43 AM


Since some cannot seem to let this topic end without taking more potshots at those who know that ID is behind existance, I will offer a few more comments:
(1) There is a big big difference in understanding the laws of nuclear physics, how atoms behave, and how to harness the energy contained in the atom/electron than in knowing where the elementary particles of the atom came from. True science is in knowing and proving the how, not in speculating on the where. Pure and simple, the elementary particles of the atom came from from our ID Creator who made the universe, the earth, the dirt, and the electron/photon.
(2) I know there is at least one person here who is making six figure income in his working profession. To imply that only those who believe in the theory of evolution are worthy of hire as techinal professionals is shear arrogance!

The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10

Replies to this message:
 Message 161 by crashfrog, posted 03-27-2006 12:19 PM John 10:10 has replied
 Message 162 by Chiroptera, posted 03-27-2006 12:25 PM John 10:10 has not replied
 Message 164 by sidelined, posted 03-27-2006 1:17 PM John 10:10 has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 161 of 302 (298668)
03-27-2006 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 160 by John 10:10
03-27-2006 10:43 AM


To imply that only those who believe in the theory of evolution are worthy of hire as techinal professionals is shear arrogance!
"Shear" arrogance? Every time you make these fraudulent boasts about your income and your technical proficiency, the manner in which you boast about it consistently puts your claim to the lie.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by John 10:10, posted 03-27-2006 10:43 AM John 10:10 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 165 by John 10:10, posted 03-27-2006 7:24 PM crashfrog has replied

Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 162 of 302 (298672)
03-27-2006 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 160 by John 10:10
03-27-2006 10:43 AM


quote:
those who know that ID is behind existance
Well, it is possible that ID is behind existence, and it is certainly possible that you know this to be a fact. However, your knowledge would then appear to be due to special revelation, because it isn't really based on evidence.

"Religion is the best business to be in. It's the only one where the customers blame themselves for product failure."
-- Ellis Weiner (quoted on the NAiG message board)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by John 10:10, posted 03-27-2006 10:43 AM John 10:10 has not replied

ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 163 of 302 (298682)
03-27-2006 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 156 by John 10:10
03-24-2006 1:42 PM


So, your being an engineer, with a degree in 'Engineering phsyics' gives you so much insite into evolution that you know more about it than people who have degrees in BIology and biochemistry?
Perhaps you can answer the questions people as of I.D> to make it a legitament scientific theory instead of pure speculation. What kind of
tests can you come up with to make I.D. make predictions that would distinguish it from evolution, and how can this be tested, and I.D. potentially falsified?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by John 10:10, posted 03-24-2006 1:42 PM John 10:10 has not replied

sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 164 of 302 (298695)
03-27-2006 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 160 by John 10:10
03-27-2006 10:43 AM


John 10:10
) There is a big big difference in understanding the laws of nuclear physics, how atoms behave, and how to harness the energy contained in the atom/electron than in knowing where the elementary particles of the atom came from. True science is in knowing and proving the how, not in speculating on the where. Pure and simple, the elementary particles of the atom came from from our ID Creator who made the universe, the earth, the dirt, and the electron/photon.
{sigh} Ok, then, let us rephrase to fit the shift in goalposts.
How can you observe and prove that a photon is not within the electron before the electron emits a photon? How can you observe and prove an electron emits a photon?
How can you observe and prove that the elementary particles came from your ID creator?

Science alone of all the subjects contains within itself the lesson of the danger of belief in the infallibility of the greatest teachers in the preceding generation . . .Learn from science that you must doubt the experts. As a matter of fact, I can also define science another way: Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts.
Richard Feynman

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by John 10:10, posted 03-27-2006 10:43 AM John 10:10 has not replied

John 10:10
Member (Idle past 2995 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 165 of 302 (298816)
03-27-2006 7:24 PM
Reply to: Message 161 by crashfrog
03-27-2006 12:19 PM


Your the one who brought up your six figure income. I'm sure the IRS would like to verify this. They do mine every year.
As for my resume, send me yours and I'll send you mine. Then you can verify mine with my present and previous employers. Let's see who has to goods!

The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10

This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by crashfrog, posted 03-27-2006 12:19 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by crashfrog, posted 03-27-2006 7:46 PM John 10:10 has replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024