Bible Cryptids/Dinosaurs?

BTW: You say that the modern hebrew word for "Leviathan" is for "whale" but what whale? What species? It seems that all whales are under the modern hebrew "Leviathan"

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

well, that IS my point. the leviathan described is NOT a whale. it could be anything -- and that's the point. it's not a real animal at all. the whale is the real animal. the giant squid is a real animal two. leviathan is neither of these things -- he plays a mythicized role in the hebrew tradition. not just job, but elsewhere in the bible too.look at the description of satan in revelation, the "great red dragon" with seven heads and ten horns. that "ancient serpent" is partially calling on the image of leviathan. is he a real animal? no, but fire-breathing dragons are. and leviathan is a fire breathing dragon, not a whale. the point is that it is not describing the very real animal we associate with the name "leviathan" but that it is describing something wholely different. it's not talking about a mosasaur or a kronosaur, either. it's talking about something more similar to lothan and tiamat. it's talking about a fire-breathing, serpentine, dragon that is highly associated with the chaos outside and before creation. that's the role leviathan and his relations play in other semitic cultures. they're also not whales. his breath lights coals. smokes comes out of his nose. firebrands and sparks stream from his mouth. his sneezes make lightning.i'm going to make another post out of this, i think. because if you look at this in comparison to the other animals in the last section of job, it's quite different. so are you saying that the leviathan of job is not related to the other mentions of leviathan elsewhere in the bible? right, but you're still losing perspective here. the leviathan of the bible is the myth, and the livyatan (whale) of modern hebrew is the real animal that is named after it.

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what species do you mean when you say "whale?"it just means whale. they probably append adjectives to it to differentiate what kind of whale, much like we do: "gray whale" "balean whale" "blue whale" etc.

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I have already shown that the "fire" is poetic wording no doubt refferring to the "Leviathan's" self defense mechanism. Do you think that it has actual shields like warriors use on it's back (Job 41:15)? Does Behemoth actually have bronze bones (JOb 40:18)? Then why are you adamant that the fire/lighting here is literal? Why is it mythical?And yes, the "Leviathan" of Job 41 is NOT the same as the supernatural Leviathan mentioned elsewhere. The supernatural one, like Litan, has many heads. It will be fought by God in the last days. This Leviathan in Job 41 is only one headed, and if you remember the poetic language (Job is widsom and poetry) then you can see that it is nothing more than a real animal, one that science has yet to discover.Do you have any evidence, based on the text, that this "Leviathan" of Job 41 is mythical?

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

Do you have any evidence that it is NOT mythical?

Do you have any evidence that it is NOT mythical? You claim it is real, just not found yet.It seems a lot of assumptions are going into that statement.

Answer my question first and i'll answer yours.Do you see anything in the passage that points to myth?

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

The fire-breathing ought to be your first clue.(Forget about bombardier beetles. A big animal has no use for a chemical "defense mechanism" - he can crush his enemy like a bug.)

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what's even more curious to me is the crossover of this thread and another: leviathan, a fire breathing dragon, is a real animal. but snake has to be supernatural because it talks.

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Do you know what firgurative language is? Elephants dont need to use their tusks to defend themselves against natural predators, for size alone protects them. Yet those tusks come in handy for a bull elephant when a rival male challenges him into a fight.Komodo Dragons dont have to rely on their disease infected saliva that they use when they bite their prey (Land of Lost Monsters" by Ted Oakes, page 60)to defend themselves from much smaller creatures. their bite alone is good enough to dispatch much smaller creatures. Yet it's bacteria infested saliva, when applied to their sharp teeth in a savage bite, makes an effective weapon against large prey.BTW: I did some research on the web. It seesm that the "fire" that Leviathan seems to emit could very well be figurative of a hiss that a Crocodile makes. If you combine the hiss of a croc with the breath of a Croc on a cold morning (could be seen by ancient people as "smoke") then you could very well have people writing of Crocs as having "breath of fire" in a poetical, figurative sense.The info abou fire/croc hiss can be found at:Leviathan - WikipediaGiven the above info, it seems that I was probably wrong to think that the "Leviathan" of Job 41 was some unknown animal; It seems likely to be a Croc. But I was right in that the "fire" was figurative of something else.

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

As for your "snake" comment:There is a tale of a talking Donkey in Numbers 22:22-35. In this passage, the Donkey is given the ability to talk by God himself. This animal is not a supernautral spirit, just an animal that was divinly gifted with human speech (wonder if he knew Shrek....)The Serpent could no doubt have been supernaturally gifted with speech, though it was not likely from God (i'm thinking Satan possibly)This is not to be a scienftific discussion when dealing with the talking serpent. Just a theological one. But you are right that the serpent is seen as nothing more than a snake in the text.

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

BTW: "The New Jerome Biblical Commentary" does agree with you: Behemoth's "tail" more than likely means "Phallus" (Page 488)

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

When figurative language is used, how do you tell if it is referring to an actual beast or a myth? Sounds pretty far-fetched. If I was describing a hiss, I'd probably call it a "hiss".On the other hand, if I was trying to make up a really scary myth, I might talk about fire-breathing. It's more likely that the whole @#$% thing is figurative - bits and pieces of real animals frankensteined together to make up a mythological beast.

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Although it seems that the modern Hippopotamus ("Riverhorse" in greek, if i'm not mistaken)does not fit the bill of the Biblical "Behemoth" it doesn't mean that it was not some sort of Hippo. "Hippopotamus Gorgops" a much larger hippo than the modern one, lived up to relatively recent times, living in PLeistocene East Africa (Page 268 of "The Simon & Schuster Encyclopedia of Dinosaurs & Prehistoric Beasts")it is not impossible for this animal to have survived up to recent times, and it might have lived in the Middle East or near it When Job was written (pre-2000 BC to 4th century BC, depending on who you ask)This Hippo was very, very large, and it's nose might have therefore been too large and strong to be pierced, like Behemoth of Job.Possible, but not proven.

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

"It's snorting shakes the Heavens! It's tail does cut the Gods! When it roars, even RA does tremble!" well, you are not the author of Job, are you? You dont live back in the distant ages of antiquity, do you? I think that's similar to what scientists thought when they saw for the first time the body of a Duck Billed Platypus (page 123 of "LIFE: The Seven Wonders of the World")But everybody has their point of view. If you belief that, that's fine. You believe one thing, i'll believe another.

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4