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Author Topic:   What’s YEC explanation for the emergence of races?
Peter
Member (Idle past 1478 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 17 of 47 (28649)
01-08-2003 5:46 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Aryeh Shavit
12-25-2002 9:39 AM


quote:
Originally posted by Aryeh Shavit:
I wonder how the YEC scientists explain the existence of human races. Specifically:
1) How did the descendants of Adam and Eve become so racially different during just a few thousands of years?
2) Why do the different races live in different geographical zones and how did they manage to arrive there. For example how did the Australian aborigines arrive to Australia?
Thanks in advance,
Aryeh.

It's even less time ... and I've asked this too ... since all the
races we see had to come from Noah's descendents which acording to
YEC was about 4500 years ago.
Plus, since we know that different races existed at the time
of Jesus, that cuts us down to an emergence time of less than
2500 years.
We also know that different races existed prior to this,
and that according to KJV Egyptians existed only a few
hundred years after the flood ... indicating a racial separation
time of a mere few hundred years.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Aryeh Shavit, posted 12-25-2002 9:39 AM Aryeh Shavit has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by RedVento, posted 01-08-2003 10:01 AM Peter has not replied
 Message 35 by ddmcneill, posted 01-22-2003 1:50 PM Peter has replied

  
Peter
Member (Idle past 1478 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 20 of 47 (28970)
01-13-2003 2:28 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by peter borger
01-08-2003 8:11 PM


The question was about how YEC scientists explain the
emergence of different human 'races' given the
time-frame available in the Bible.
In this context your response is meaningless.
The point, I feel, that was being made was that for the
best evidence+interpretation in contempory science
suggests that we have 70-80,000 years to develop
such differences.
The relatively small variation amongst humans compared to other
species is more likely caused by the greater prevalance of
inter-breeding in human populations ... what other organisms
do you know that can count ancestors across the whole of europe,
and in some cases asia and africa too?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by peter borger, posted 01-08-2003 8:11 PM peter borger has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by peter borger, posted 01-13-2003 8:17 PM Peter has replied

  
Peter
Member (Idle past 1478 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 24 of 47 (29166)
01-15-2003 1:52 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by peter borger
01-13-2003 8:17 PM


quote:
Originally posted by peter borger:
Dear Peter,
P: The relatively small variation amongst humans compared to other
species is more likely caused by the greater prevalance of
inter-breeding in human populations ... what other organisms
do you know that can count ancestors across the whole of europe,
and in some cases asia and africa too?
PB: I already discussed the ZFY region with Page. I've demonstrated several times what the problems are with this region, why this region is NOT explained by NDT. I was under the impression that you had read it, since you responded to my claim of NRM in this region in another thread. You are free to believe this kind of evo-nonsense (stories for the gullible), but remember it is NOT backed up by science. On the contrary. What do you think 'evo-scientists' had to invent this time now they found out about the invariant ZFY region. A mega vulcano? Get real. Think for yourself!
And about your other organisms.... there are plenty.

Which ones? And is that ancestral from an evolutionary viewpoint
or from family trees?
I also take it from your response that you have not considered
the impact of human behaviours (where they differ from
other animals) on the genome ... your post was dismissive,
as often you are, in a way that suggests that you cannot think
beyond your own narrow viewpoint.
[This message has been edited by Peter, 01-15-2003]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by peter borger, posted 01-13-2003 8:17 PM peter borger has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by derwood, posted 01-21-2003 11:14 AM Peter has not replied

  
Peter
Member (Idle past 1478 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 31 of 47 (29841)
01-22-2003 2:45 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by peter borger
01-21-2003 6:54 PM


It would be nice if you started addressing criticism of
your model with elaboration rather than repetition.
Also, I don't believe that NRM has particular relevence to
the question of how YEC's explain the emergence of races.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by peter borger, posted 01-21-2003 6:54 PM peter borger has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by peter borger, posted 01-22-2003 5:01 AM Peter has not replied

  
Peter
Member (Idle past 1478 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 36 of 47 (29994)
01-23-2003 5:45 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by ddmcneill
01-22-2003 1:50 PM


quote:
Originally posted by ddmcneill:
I think your timeline is completely wrong, this site will help you get your Bible Time line in order. Amazing Bible Timeline with World History – Easily See 6017 Years of Biblical and World History Together! The totly history of the Bible only goes back 4004 BC which we know that began with The man they called Adam. We had races over 10k years ago, an interesting subject that I enjoyed studying was Eygpt, you will find loads of truth to man kind by studying the Eygption.
[This message has been edited by ddmcneill, 01-22-2003]

The site you posted confirms my timing. I said that the flood was
approx. 4500 years ago which is around 2500 BCE. The site
you suggested says the flood was aroun 2380 BC so just about
the same as I said.
The problem for races and the bible is that within some
300 years of the flood there were Egyptians ... all descended
from Noah and his three sons (and their wives).
I brought this up in the Biblical Accuracy forum under the topic
of 'Where did the Egyptians come from?' So there's no real
need to go into shoe-horned population dynamics here

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by ddmcneill, posted 01-22-2003 1:50 PM ddmcneill has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by Paul, posted 05-13-2003 12:54 PM Peter has replied

  
Peter
Member (Idle past 1478 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 43 of 47 (38419)
04-30-2003 8:16 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by crashfrog
04-25-2003 4:03 AM


There are a few physiological differences though.
Guess it's just the same as 'types' of domestic cat
though ... different fur patterns and colours and lengths
but ultimately just different shades of cat.
Even then, the question for this thread stands ... how did the
variation get into the human populaiton given a YEC-biblical
time scale.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by crashfrog, posted 04-25-2003 4:03 AM crashfrog has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by some_guy, posted 05-10-2003 1:04 AM Peter has replied

  
Peter
Member (Idle past 1478 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 45 of 47 (39670)
05-11-2003 4:01 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by some_guy
05-10-2003 1:04 AM


They we look is not all there is to what we
commonly call race, though. There are some other
minor physiological differences (like bone and muscular
arrangements), but again these fit well within the
bounds of natural variation.
But cultural differences are also part of what we
call 'race'.
According to the Bible we are all direct descendents of
Noah (via his three sons after the flood), and yet within
a relatively short space of time there is a Pharoah in Egypt ...
a radically different culture and world view to Noah's.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by some_guy, posted 05-10-2003 1:04 AM some_guy has not replied

  
Peter
Member (Idle past 1478 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 47 of 47 (40050)
05-14-2003 7:00 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by Paul
05-13-2003 12:54 PM


I can't find my previous post on this, and I haven't recalculated
the time from the bible, but I beleive that these
alternate cultures had on a matter of a couple hundred years
to develop ... from originators with first hand knowledge
of the power of the one god ... and some of the elders lived into
their hundreds still producing offspring.
We have second or maybe third generation believers developing
a polytheistic, Pharoah-is-god culture with vastly different
world-view to Noah's children in only a couple of hundred
years ... not to mention the populational support required
for the culture.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Paul, posted 05-13-2003 12:54 PM Paul has not replied

  
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