Limestone Layers and the Flood

Thanks for your support Jar. So far I haven't been confronted with data that conflicts with my beliefs, what I'm being confronted with is a bunch of technical stuff that takes some time for me to figure out as I am not a scientist. But yes, were I confronted with undeniable facts which countered what I believe, I would have to abandon my beliefs, which would be very difficult for me. So no matter what, it's going to take awhile to get me to say, "Your right, I'm wrong"

This is a nice picture, but it would be helpful if there were some text along with it. Is it limestone from the Dover cliffs? What are Crinoid fragments? Fragments of some kind of marine animal? The Radiolarians from your second link are absolutely beautiful, and in the third site, it clearly states that the "chalk" is made up of mostly coccolith biomicrites. What is lacking is a description of HOW THEY KNOW. It doesn't say, "If you look at the chalk under a high powered microscope, you can see the forms of the coccolith biomicrites it is made up of." I already knew that most modern scientist think the limestone was formed from organic material. What Mr.Brown claims is that they are wrong and that if you look at it under a high powered microscope, it appears to be inorganic in nature. So what I need are statements or pictures which prove that to be false.I can understand the point, though, of the burden of proof being more on me, since I'm the one arguing what the majority of scientists say. Brown does discuss several reasons that the limestone is more likely inorganic. So I will go into some of those in my next post.

Just going to post this because I've been trying to all day and it wasn't working for some reason. I'll have to respond to the new messages later.For those of you who believe that the limestone deposits are mainly organic in nature, here are some questions (my source is again Walt Brown):1. Volcanic gasses are composed of CO2 and steam. Since carbon is rarely found in basement or igneous rocks, what could be the source of the CO2 found in the gas?2. If limestone formed organically, in shallow seas, why would the sea floor slowly subside almost 6 miles to allow these accumulations?3."If a microscopic limestone crystal grows in a magnesium-rich solution, magnesium ions will, under certain conditions, occupy or replace exactly half the calcium ion locations in limestone, forming a common mineral called dolomite"Since dolomite is not secreted by any known organism, where did the necessary magnesium come from to create the dolomite?4. If almost all limestone was produced organically in shallow seas, and since today, organic limestone is primarily produced within 30 degrees of the equator, why is it that limestone layers an cement are not concentrated near the equator, but found at all latitudes?This message has been edited by Christian, 03-20-2006 06:11 PM{As discussed later in this topic, Christian had mistakenly above written "30 miles" instead of "30 degrees". She has corrected that error, but did not make any edit note concerning that much later change in a significant point of content in this message. Thus I am inserting this comment. - Adminnemooseus}This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 03-20-2006 06:58 PM

Well, I think this is getting a bit off topic, but I'll answer anyway. What my really important beliefs are is that the Bible is true. If it isn't, than I will have to abandon my beliefs. No point in believing something that is not true. But we'll cross that bridge if we get to it.I'm tempted to respond to the rest of your message, but it requires a lot of thought as in how to word things and seems like a completely different topic. I would be happy to discuss my beliefs with you. Maybe you can catch me in chat sometime, or maybe I'll participate in another thread about that later.

yes, it says degrees, not miles. Sorry about that. I'll go edit that.{I have added an edit note at the message in question. - Adminnemooseus}This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 03-20-2006 07:00 PM

I think you misunderstood his scenerio. Not all of the limestone was liquified. Here's what he says :
Any gaseous CO2 was quickly “squeezed” into solution by the great pressure from the weight of the crust above the chamber. The subterranean water therefore was acidic, and some of the solid limestone dissolved until the available CO2 was consumed in the reaction written above.

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As this subterranean water escaped to the earth’s surface during the flood, the water’s pressure dropped drastically, so CO2 gas and microscopic, milky-white particles of limestone came out of solution. The escaping water scoured out the relatively soft limestone. Considerable CO2 entered the atmosphere, and tiny limestone particles spread throughout the flood waters.
In other words, what escaped was not pure liquified limestone, but rather a mixture of liquid limestone and microscopic particles of solid limestone. At least that's my take on it.

I'm looking into this. No, guess I should've said, "if MOST limestone formed organically, in shallow seas,..." I'm such a novice at this. You're going to have to help me. Are you saying that sea level changes cause the sea floor to subside? That sounds like "sea level changes cause sea level changes." What am I missing?Here's his quote and source for the 6 mile depth:
Scattered off the east coast of the United States are thick limestone deposits. Most dramatic is the Bahamas Bank, an area 250 by 800 miles, where “seismic evidence suggests that carbonate strata may extend down as far as 10 kilometers [6 miles].”9

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9 . Arthur N. Strahler, Physical Geology (New York: Harper & Row, Publishers, 1981), p. 247. Just want to say that I can't find an option to donate to Walt's ministry anywhere on his site.The Center for Scientific Creation: Home of the Hydroplate TheoryAll he basically has on there is his book, free for anyone to read over the internet. He also has an option to buy the book. It costs $25 and you get a good quality hardback book. I know it's good quality because I purchased it about 3 years ago, and my husband and I have both read it and refered back to it many times and it has held up very well. That seems like a pretty good deal to me. Perhaps he makes money on his speaking tours, but I've never seen them advertised so I really don't know.

I don't see how water evaporating can cause magnesium to enter the sea.

yes You have to remember that I have very little knowledge in this area. Could you please explain to me how magnesium gets into the seawater.

Since magnesium is so common, why is it that dolomite isn't being formed today?

If I could agree with you that EVERY scientific source were in agreement about this, then perhaps I would do that. You have to understand that my Bible says things like this:

quote:

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Matthew 7:13-14
Enter by the narrow gate, for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

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If I were going to accept someone's word, I would be more likely to accept Walt Brown's word, than the geologists who have a different world view than I do. You guys are telling me that Walt Brown is wrong. I need to know WHY he's wrong.

But geologists do have a problem with dolomite:Dolomite - Wikipedia
There is significant uncertainty regarding the cause of dolomite formation. Vast deposits are present in the geological record, but the mineral is relatively rare in modern environments. This is referred to as the "Dolomite Problem". Dolomite accounts for about 10% of all sedimentary rock, including much that would have been produced near the surface of the Earth. However, laboratory synthesis of undisputed dolomite has been carried out only at temperatures of greater than 100 degrees Celsius, conditions typical of burial in sedimentary basins - even though much dolomite in the rock record appears to have formed in low-temperature conditions.http://mineral.galleries.com/...rbonat/dolomite/dolomite.htm
Disputes have arisen as to how these dolomite beds formed and the debate has been called the "Dolomite Problem". Dolomite at present time, does not form on the surface of the earth; yet massive layers of dolomite can be found in ancient rocks. That is quite a problem for sedimentologists who see sandstones, shales and limestones formed today almost before their eyes. Why no dolomite? Page not found - Jerusalem Stone - Imported Natural Stone
Mixing of meteoric water and seawater has been suggested for dolomitization by Badiozarnani (1973). He indicates the mixing of proper proportions of the two fluids can generate a nixed fluid which is undersaturated with respect to calcite and supersaturated with respect to dolomite. Although evidence of this model has been found in Jamaica (Land 1977), it is generally not accepted as an explanation for the massive dolomites (Sibley et al. 1994). Evidence for the occurrence of dolomitization by normal seawater was found at the Enewetak atoll (Sailer 1984). Whether the minor amounts of dolomite found in deep sea sediments is the result of dolomitization by normal seawater has not been determined.

I hope your not implying that that was what I was doing. I was not "sticking in goddidit". I was surmising that if Walt Brown has a better explanation for the formation of dolomite than the geologists (who apparently don't have an explanation) then perhaps Mr. Brown's scenerio has some merit.

jar is correct. I do not, as of yet, have enough information to have formed my opinion of him. Caverns? Crickets? Sure, go ahead. I don't know what you're referring to here, but would be happy to discuss it with you. elicit a response from me? Was it me from whom you were hearing about how wonderful Walt's book is? When did I say that? I think I was referring to the binding, not the content. I don't understand the content well enough yet, to have formed an opinion.

Not that I understand chemical principles very well, but which chemical principles might it violate? I think so. from the underground chambers. In his book he goes into many evidences for the subterranian chamber. One of which is the mid-oceanic ridge.I'll try to respond to the rest of this post later. I've done enough of this today.