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Author Topic:   anti-abortion folks still get abortions
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 121 of 301 (298923)
03-28-2006 7:14 AM
Reply to: Message 118 by PaulK
03-28-2006 1:10 AM


Re: Content, not looks or probable politics!
What isn't there is any reason to consider it to be worse to go along with the claims of the anti-abortion movement while not truly believing them than it is to have an abortion believing it to be a horrible crime.
You mean why isn't there?
Yes, I've stated that being hypocrite is worse.
But I've also stated that it is still not a logical arguement for abortion. What people feel about it, isn't actually what will dictate if it is right or wrong.
My original comment was one of critizing Joyce for using this arguement, and to point out that the same case could be made for the other side. (Is this a strawman?)
But, I do commend you, for your the only one to stay on topic, and have a rational debate about it, thank you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by PaulK, posted 03-28-2006 1:10 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by PaulK, posted 03-28-2006 7:45 AM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 131 by macaroniandcheese, posted 03-28-2006 12:24 PM riVeRraT has replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 122 of 301 (298928)
03-28-2006 7:37 AM
Reply to: Message 119 by Silent H
03-28-2006 4:14 AM


As it is, I'd say imposing "unprotected" is unfair.
There is no guaranteed method of protecting yourself, so I hope nothing ever happens to you.
In Africa, a family is already immune to the virus thanks to a gene mutation regarding their immune system. Thus for them it is not a risk.
I did not know that, that is interesting. The human body wins out over science!
Actually we have a pretty good idea. It was a variant of SIV (a simian virus, changed to something humans could suffer from, like the bird flu thing). It was first transferred to humans by those killing simians (that would be monkeys) for meat. It could have been from eating the meat or infected blood from the monkeys entering cuts on the hunters' body.
So again, no sex as cause.
So the rumor wasn't that far off.
Plus your hang-up on the word cause, is unwarranted. Spread, and cause are practically synonyms. They share some of the meaning. I may have been improper in using the word cause, and spread would have been better, but I do understand the differences. These things are kind of obvious to me, and when I read other peoples statements.
Hanging up on that word has caused/spread your thoughts to go completely off-topic, so I think we should stop right now. You took the meaning of one word, and debated it with me, and completely missed my point in doing so, and the topic of the thread.
Spreading is an accessory to the crime, it would go to jail too.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by Silent H, posted 03-28-2006 4:14 AM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by Wounded King, posted 03-28-2006 8:11 AM riVeRraT has not replied
 Message 128 by Silent H, posted 03-28-2006 10:12 AM riVeRraT has not replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 123 of 301 (298930)
03-28-2006 7:39 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by crashfrog
03-27-2006 7:31 PM


Re: Content, not looks or probable politics!
You see, taking things out of context sucks.
So biology is the only science, thats what your saying.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by crashfrog, posted 03-27-2006 7:31 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by crashfrog, posted 03-28-2006 9:01 AM riVeRraT has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 124 of 301 (298933)
03-28-2006 7:45 AM
Reply to: Message 121 by riVeRraT
03-28-2006 7:14 AM


Re: Content, not looks or probable politics!
So are you saying that it is more wrong to go along with saying something is a horrible crime if you don't believe it, than it is to actually do something believing it to be a horrible crime ?
I can't see how that could make sense.
Now I haven't argued that this makes any case for allowing abortion, but I would have to say that if people who are strongly against abortion doubt that abortion is really as bad as their movement says then it demonstrates that the case against permitting abortions is not clear-cut.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by riVeRraT, posted 03-28-2006 7:14 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by riVeRraT, posted 03-28-2006 6:05 PM PaulK has replied

Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 125 of 301 (298937)
03-28-2006 8:11 AM
Reply to: Message 122 by riVeRraT
03-28-2006 7:37 AM


The human body wins out over science!
WTF (excuse my french)!! You might as well say, 'Evolution wins out over God'. Talk about your non sequiturs (excuse my further french).
TTFN,
WK

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by riVeRraT, posted 03-28-2006 7:37 AM riVeRraT has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 126 of 301 (298944)
03-28-2006 8:59 AM
Reply to: Message 120 by riVeRraT
03-28-2006 7:05 AM


Haha, I can't believe you said that.
Did you think it through before you wrote it, RR? Think about it for a second. If everyone stops having sex for a century, that means that the youngest humans alive at the end of the century will be 99 years, 3 months old (the people who were concieved on the last night people could have sex).
99 year-old people can't reproduce. If everyone stopped having sex for a century, the human race would be extinct a decade after that century was over.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by riVeRraT, posted 03-28-2006 7:05 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by riVeRraT, posted 03-28-2006 6:01 PM crashfrog has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 127 of 301 (298945)
03-28-2006 9:01 AM
Reply to: Message 123 by riVeRraT
03-28-2006 7:39 AM


Re: Content, not looks or probable politics!
So biology is the only science, thats what your saying.
I have said that, actually. Of course I didn't say that in my post, however. What does that make you, RR?
You claim I "took you out of context", but there's not all that much context in a three-line post. My guess is that you said something stupid, got caught doing it, and now you're whining about "context" to cover your ass.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by riVeRraT, posted 03-28-2006 7:39 AM riVeRraT has not replied

Silent H
Member (Idle past 5819 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 128 of 301 (298959)
03-28-2006 10:12 AM
Reply to: Message 122 by riVeRraT
03-28-2006 7:37 AM


There is no guaranteed method of protecting yourself, so I hope nothing ever happens to you.
Can HIV be spread via masturbation of a partner when there are no cuts on either person? How about oral sex with a condom where the person does not cum into the condom during oral sex?
Give me the mechanisms and stats on that.
In truth one can say there is no protection against anything. That does not make all things to be feared or not engaged in.
Spread, and cause are practically synonyms. They share some of the meaning.
Would you say to someone that blood transfusions cause HIV? How about breathing or eating causing pneumonia or meningitis? Long walks at night cause Nile Fever? Somehow I doubt that.
One can contract an illness when exposed to another infected individual. Contact with an infected individual is a cause, the method is superfluous.
Spreading is an accessory to the crime, it would go to jail too.
If one is not infected then sex will not spread it either. Hence two or many more people of known negative status having sex beyond "two people married together" will not spread anything. No guilt, no accessory to the crime.
Knives can be used for all sorts of things. That some murderers plunge them into unsuspecting victims, does not mean knives cause or are accessories to murder.

holmes
"Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." (Lovecraft)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by riVeRraT, posted 03-28-2006 7:37 AM riVeRraT has not replied

macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 129 of 301 (298982)
03-28-2006 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by riVeRraT
03-27-2006 7:28 PM


Re: Content, not looks or probable politics!
I was a teen who had sex.
do you think maybe your unhealthy attitudes toward sex are a result of this?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by riVeRraT, posted 03-27-2006 7:28 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by riVeRraT, posted 03-28-2006 6:14 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 130 of 301 (298983)
03-28-2006 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by riVeRraT
03-27-2006 7:27 PM


If it's so safe and healthy, then go have unprotected sex with a 1000 woman, and then talk to me.
do you send your children bike riding? or roller skating? it's a safe and healthy hobby. you should send them without helmets and elbowpads and knee pads since it's so safe and healthy.
better yet. why bother to have your children wear seat belts? cars are perfectly safe. i mean. we all drive them and they don't give us diseases.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by riVeRraT, posted 03-27-2006 7:27 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by riVeRraT, posted 03-28-2006 6:13 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 131 of 301 (298985)
03-28-2006 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by riVeRraT
03-28-2006 7:14 AM


what's the difference between a pile of dead babies and a ferarri?
What people feel about it, isn't actually what will dictate if it is right or wrong.
but it's only wrong to people who agree with you. it's not wrong to the rest of us. and the fact that you want to put my life and health in jeopardy while you peruse my medical records to figure out in your own, uneducated, non-medical opinion whether my life or health is in danger is
AN UNDUE BURDEN

on my right to the advice of my physician.
that's it. that's what it comes down to. my physician should be my ONLY medical adviser. not my pastor, not your pastor, not bill frist, not george dubya, not that creepy bastard who anally raped his wife and subjected her to prostitution, and most certainly not you.
that's it. i don't care if it's "right" or "wrong" to flush out a tapeworm. all i care about is that it's WRONG for you to want to control my healthcare. you don't pay for it; piss off.
*edit*
well actually. the funny thing is. you do pay for my health care. at least 85% of it.haha. but i paid for it first.
This message has been edited by brennakimi, 03-28-2006 12:26 PM
This message has been edited by brennakimi, 03-28-2006 12:32 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by riVeRraT, posted 03-28-2006 7:14 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by riVeRraT, posted 03-28-2006 6:12 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 132 of 301 (298990)
03-28-2006 12:47 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by riVeRraT
03-27-2006 7:27 PM


riVeRrat
If it's so safe and healthy, then go have unprotected sex with a 1000 woman, and then talk to me.
Tell you what. You find the thousand women wanting unprotected sex with me and I will take one for the team.I mean it is the least I can do right?
P.S. You do mean all at one time eh?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by riVeRraT, posted 03-27-2006 7:27 PM riVeRraT has not replied

Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2492 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 133 of 301 (299029)
03-28-2006 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by iano
03-23-2006 5:42 PM


Not quite on point
Have you ever wished that a cop was around whilst you silently cursed a person doing something that you yourself have done...and probably will do again? A question of semantics in that case
You're talking about, let's say, speeding.
Have you ever wished a cop was there to catch the guy who's speeding? Sure.
Have you ever been the guy that's speeding? Sure.
But here's the main difference between your scenario and the main topic -- I'm not actively trying to reduce the speed limit. Nor am I trying to make cars illegal.
These people are trying to outlaw a medical procedure which they themselves are choosing to have.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by iano, posted 03-23-2006 5:42 PM iano has not replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 134 of 301 (299060)
03-28-2006 6:01 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by crashfrog
03-28-2006 8:59 AM


You would be the first to argue about homosexuals being able to have babies, through scientific means.
You don't have to have sex, to have a baby these days, haven't you expressed that to me already?
Why are you now saying that we would not exist anymore?
I know why, cause it suits your arguement to say such a thing now.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by crashfrog, posted 03-28-2006 8:59 AM crashfrog has not replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 135 of 301 (299063)
03-28-2006 6:05 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by PaulK
03-28-2006 7:45 AM


Re: Content, not looks or probable politics!
So are you saying that it is more wrong to go along with saying something is a horrible crime if you don't believe it
I never said that. I expressed that I do not know why those people who did that, according to surveys, and Joyce's web-site, if they even in fact did that, and the numbers are correct.
But if, they do think it is horrible, and are against it, then they are hypocrite for getting one. What there true motives are, is unclear.
The survey doesn't really indicate if they are truely against it, and got one anyway, and just commited murder in their own minds, or if they really don't have a problem with it, but just protest against it for whatever reason.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by PaulK, posted 03-28-2006 7:45 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by Firebird, posted 03-28-2006 9:06 PM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 152 by PaulK, posted 03-29-2006 1:52 AM riVeRraT has replied

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