God is cruel

That is possible, but they have the choice not to. I fail to see how, because it strikes me that the evidence is 100% in favour of us having choices in life. If you have the ability to choose to think a certain way, then you can dismiss anything.If I chose to be a burglar and justified it, then is that God's fault? Thanks, now God can go to prison instead of me.Nobody is forced to choose or think anything in particular, so as far as I can see, there is no credence in inferring that God must be cruel because of how people are.This isn't proven, therefore the contrary cannot be negated. If the position was proved THEN you could definitely negate the contrary position. But the atheist must show us why their argument is valid. IMHO, it's hard to convince us that we don't hve choices. Indeed, it seems silly.This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 04-03-2006 10:32 AM

Hi Bri. Under my premisses pertaining to pigs, concluding pigs are purple with white and red spots, is the only conclusion. The argument, is, I suppose;If God created me to think in a certain way, then because I think in an unGodly manner, then God is cruel because this will make me burn.It doesn't seem a frightfully solid argument. Those premisses are certainly bold. Therefore they need supporting.I'm not convinced atheism is a major problem. The bible talks more about sin in regards to hell. It's the requirement of perfection through Jesus Christ which might make it hard for an atheist to go therein, not the atheism itself(for it's the sins that are the imperfection remember, not the atheism). Therefore I think God infact saves whom he saves, at his discresion.Therefore, theists and atheists alike, are unperfect. The only difference is our belief that Christ payed the penalty for our lack of perfection, thereby being in place of us. It's a problem therefore, if an atheist won't acknowledge his life's sins.It is unclear as to whether atheism = hell, IMHO, because of important passages, such as the seperation of the sheep from the goats.Sure, unsophisticated believers might be proponents of preching hell fire in regards to atheism, but their arguments fall apart under scrutiny, IMHO. There is no solid and conclusive position if we look at the bible alone, because of it's apparently contradictory positions.TTFNThis message has been edited by mike the wiz, 04-03-2006 10:53 AM

Easy to answer for me because I got depressed a year or so ago and didn't even pray to God for about two months. Then after refuting him in my own mind, I CHOSE to believe again even though I had no reason to.The O.P. is just a false dilemma. If God isn't a bad ass who I have good reason to disbelieve then he doesn't exist.In other words; " I as an atheist don't want to believe in God therefore he's a meany if he exists and that's that "...Dan, just admitt that you think you knows it all. It's just arrogant personality when we think that, but if you're conscious of it then guess what bud? You're responsible for it. Just like I was.It's like saying;" God, I shot that guy but it was you who pulled the trigger because you made a few galaxies a couple of billion years back, do you remember ? "" Objection. "" Sustained ".This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 04-03-2006 07:10 PM

That's not what I meant by " I had no reason to". Don't equivocate Watson.I didn't mean that if there's no reason to believe in anything then do. I meant that I had refuted the notion of God in my arrogant musings and decided that they didn't warrant disbelief in something greater. Which answered your question, if you still remember it.Obviously there is no comparison between Jesus Christ the saviour, and a butt monkey. If there is to you, then that speaks more about you than it does any belief system. It's just an analogy Dan, so that I could find the equivalent of some kind of penalty. You know, prison, hell. (Don't forget, it's only the atheists in this thread, that insist they are going to hell. And I find in general, that they WANT this teaching taught so that they can try and smear Christ-belief. That is very obvious to me, when I observe Brian insisting upon being guilty, for one must have a motive for such a thing). Ice cool when it comes to the hunt, because he's still stuck on the butt monkey.This message has been edited by Deerstalker, 04-05-2006 08:36 AM

That's not what I meant even if I did use that word/s. I referred to my own musings about God. I've told you what I meant. The words themselves don't make me guilty, because of equivocation. This is the problem with you guys generally. Facts might not mean anything, but you give them too much credit. In this case, my words don't mean what you think they do, therefore the facts about what I typed, are useless.AT the time I had no reason to believe in God because I was unconvinced by the whole thing.This isn't the same thing as saying that there are no reasons to believe in God, period. It means that in regards to reasoning and evidence and intellectual thought, there might not be any logical positives in regards to deities when one thinks strictly and dispassionately.I CHOSE to believe in Christ. So yes, you can choose to believe in something. I guess this is a weighing of concepts.You now ask me to believe in butt monkeys. I would have to choose not to I suppose, as they are known as Dan-musings. I take full responsibility for not believing in them.

All you have to do is read in context. Try and get the gist of what I'm saying.I think I made it clear enough as to what I was saying. Why? I have no reason to. I'm convinced that only Christ could be the real deal because of what he taught.If belief wasn't down to my will/choice, then surely I could then wake up with monkey butt belief. But I don't recommend placing a bet that I will believe that tomorrow morning.TTFNThis message has been edited by Deerstalker, 04-05-2006 01:16 PM

Dan and I have been having duels since 2003. In the end I always annoy him more with my irrefutable brilliance. Because, as Brain and Dan both know, if it is down to them then it is their responsibility if they are right about going to hell for being atheist. If it isn't their fault, then they can blame God.Nobody forces you to pick any cupcake Dan, you cupcake!This message has been edited by Deerstalker, 04-06-2006 08:54 AM

It's worldviews that shape reality for us. Ultimately, with have minds to choose do we not?I was listening to Hugh Ross and Kenneth Samples, on this issue. Samples was pointing out that if a UFO fanatic seen a light in the sky, then his worldview would shape his conclusion, and he's think it an alien craft.So how do we get worldviews? By thinking along certain lines we get them. But at no time are we forced to restrict ourselves to a certain viewpoint, IMHO. Because afterall, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.I think this concludes our debate.I must suggest at this stage that I am irrefutabley unrefuted and cannot therefore answer your posts from now on(Take care.