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Author Topic:   Dr Page's best example of common descent easily --and better-- explained by the GUToB
derwood
Member (Idle past 1876 days)
Posts: 1457
Joined: 12-27-2001


Message 91 of 101 (29883)
01-22-2003 10:37 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by peter borger
01-21-2003 6:16 PM


quote:
Originally posted by peter borger:
Dear Dr Page,
Still waiting for your analysis, Dr Page,
Best wishes,
Peter

I downloaded the segments form the paper, as well as the entire published human mtDNA genome. Strangely, I have not been able to align any of the human segments from the paper with the mtGenome.
There is one more thing I will try.
As for your "analysis", if you want to call it that, it failed to take certain simple things into account. Stochastic processes, for example. Believe it or not, PB, others far more learned than you have taken such things into account.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by peter borger, posted 01-21-2003 6:16 PM peter borger has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by peter borger, posted 01-23-2003 5:27 AM derwood has not replied

peter borger
Member (Idle past 7665 days)
Posts: 965
From: australia
Joined: 07-05-2002


Message 92 of 101 (29991)
01-23-2003 5:27 AM
Reply to: Message 91 by derwood
01-22-2003 10:37 AM


Dear Dr Page,
Page: I downloaded the segments form the paper, as well as the entire published human mtDNA genome. Strangely, I have not been able to align any of the human segments from the paper with the mtGenome.
There is one more thing I will try.
PB: I think you have a giant publication now, since you are the first that has all complete ancient mtDNA's sequences mentioned in my reference. In other words, don't fool me Page.
PAge: As for your "analysis", if you want to call it that, it failed to take certain simple things into account. Stochastic processes, for example.
PB: Maybe you could point out what kind analysis you did with these segments and present the precise outcome on this board. I am very interested how you got to this conclusion, since the NRM are quite obvious.
Page: Believe it or not, PB, others far more learned than you have taken such things into account.
PB: My guess is that they are overlearned; been tought the wrong paradigm and now they try to squeeze in molecular data. Otherwise the teachers will get angry.
Biology is quite simple and easy to understand as long as one applies the right paradigm. That is: GUToB.
Best wishes,
Peter

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by derwood, posted 01-22-2003 10:37 AM derwood has not replied

Peter
Member (Idle past 1479 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 93 of 101 (30000)
01-23-2003 6:00 AM
Reply to: Message 90 by peter borger
01-22-2003 5:15 AM


So you cannot predict where these imperfect hairpins
will occur based upon sequence, but only infer from
extant mutations that that is where they lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by peter borger, posted 01-22-2003 5:15 AM peter borger has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by peter borger, posted 01-23-2003 6:26 AM Peter has replied

peter borger
Member (Idle past 7665 days)
Posts: 965
From: australia
Joined: 07-05-2002


Message 94 of 101 (30005)
01-23-2003 6:26 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by Peter
01-23-2003 6:00 AM


Dear Peter,
PW: So you cannot predict where these imperfect hairpins
will occur based upon sequence, but only infer from
extant mutations that that is where they lie?
PB: Before you respond to my comments be sure that you know what my comments are about. They are about human ancient mtDNA and the presence of 9 mutations in this region generated over only 62 ky. That is what Page is going to analyse. Apparently he has got a major breakthrough since he has the complete sequences of mtDNA's from all the ancient mitochondria. And now I am very curious, since I claimed that according to the date presented in the reference human and chimp have a common ancestor around 150 ky BP. He is going to falsify that, and now he has these sequences, so I can asure you that is pretty exciting. Furthermore, the fragments showed NRM on 10 positions and that would be similar to the ATP6 gene. I can hardly wait for Page's data analysis.
Regarding the hairpins. Since hairpins are internally complementary sequences and can be predicted with an appropriate program. Can alo be done by eye, but that is a tremendously meticulous job. Not preferable.
Best wishes,
Peter

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by Peter, posted 01-23-2003 6:00 AM Peter has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by Peter, posted 01-23-2003 7:55 AM peter borger has not replied

Peter
Member (Idle past 1479 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 95 of 101 (30011)
01-23-2003 7:55 AM
Reply to: Message 94 by peter borger
01-23-2003 6:26 AM


Have you posted how NRM explains this? If you have could
you tell me the post otherwise could you explain this
within your framework, please.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by peter borger, posted 01-23-2003 6:26 AM peter borger has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by derwood, posted 01-23-2003 3:29 PM Peter has not replied

derwood
Member (Idle past 1876 days)
Posts: 1457
Joined: 12-27-2001


Message 96 of 101 (30048)
01-23-2003 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by Peter
01-23-2003 7:55 AM


quote:
Dr.Page: I downloaded the segments form the paper, as well as the entire published human mtDNA genome. Strangely, I have not been able to align any of the human segments from the paper with the mtGenome.
There is one more thing I will try.
PB: I think you have a giant publication now, since you are the first that has all complete ancient mtDNA's sequences mentioned in my reference. In other words, don't fool me Page.
I really do no longer see any reason to reply to you anymore. Any impetus for charity towards you is gone.
You are either:
Stupid; Dishonest; Incompetent; Being deliberately obtuse; combinations thereof.
I will take you through this slowly, and explain the big words to you, then I am finished with you.
Here is what I wrote, important parts are bold:
"I downloaded the segments from the paper, as well as the entire published human mtDNA genome."
You reply:
"I think you have a giant publication now, since you are the first that has all complete ancient mtDNA's sequences mentioned in my reference."
Your twisted, idiotic interpretation of what I wrote is not even close to being excusable, much less explicable, EXCEPT via one of my possible explanations above.
I downloaded the SEGMENTS from the cited paper, available here:
[Invalid form] - Search Results - PubMed
AND the human mtGenome, here:
Human mitochondrion, complete genome - Nucleotide - NCBI
Don't fool you?
You ARE a fool.
Even Fred Williams had a redeeming quality (I cannot remember what it is right now).
You seem to be totally lacking.
Good bye.
For good.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Peter, posted 01-23-2003 7:55 AM Peter has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by peter borger, posted 01-23-2003 5:56 PM derwood has not replied

peter borger
Member (Idle past 7665 days)
Posts: 965
From: australia
Joined: 07-05-2002


Message 97 of 101 (30057)
01-23-2003 5:56 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by derwood
01-23-2003 3:29 PM


Dear Dr Page,
PB: quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr.Page: I downloaded the segments form the paper, as well as the entire published human mtDNA genome. Strangely, I have not been able to align any of the human segments from the paper with the mtGenome.
There is one more thing I will try.
PB: I think you have a giant publication now, since you are the first that has all complete ancient mtDNA's sequences mentioned in my reference. In other words, don't fool me Page.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PAGE: I really do no longer see any reason to reply to you anymore. Any impetus for charity towards you is gone.
PB: Listen, Page, you were going to show me and the rest of this board were my analysis went wrong. You simply didn't do that. I can find the complete human mtDNA on internet myself. I claimed that according to the ANCIENT mtDNA data humanand chimp have a common ancestor 150 kY ago and THAT IS WAHT YOU ARE GOING TO SHOW THIS BOARD TO BE WRONG. You don't even come close doing that.
You can as well claim that hat you've run a marathon in three hours while nobody was around. SO, SHOW ME YOUR ANALYSIS.
PAGE: You are either: Stupid; Dishonest; Incompetent; Being deliberately obtuse; combinations thereof.
PB: As mentioned you are nice, polite, charming and eloquent. But NOT a scientist. And above all you are playing bluff poker. If this game we play were russion roulette you would have been dead along time ago.
PAGE: I will take you through this slowly, and explain the big words to you, then I am finished with you.
Here is what I wrote, important parts are bold:
"I downloaded the segments from the paper, as well as the entire published human mtDNA genome."
You reply:
"I think you have a giant publication now, since you are the first that has all complete ancient mtDNA's sequences mentioned in my reference."
Your twisted, idiotic interpretation of what I wrote is not even close to being excusable, much less explicable, EXCEPT via one of my possible explanations above.
PB: Once again for you: YOU WERE GOING TO FALSIFY MY CLAIM THAT CHIMP AND MAN HAVE ACOMMON ANCESTOR AROUND 150 KY BP. YOU AND I KNOW THAT YOU CANNOT DO THAT WITH ONLY THE HUMAN mtDNA, SO YOU HAVE TO DO IT APPLYING WHAT IS KNOWN: THE PUBLISHED SEGMENTS. AND THEY SHOW 9 MUTATIONS OVER 62 KY? DENYING THAT IS DENYING SCIENCE. WHAT KIND OF SCIENTIST ARE YOU?
LISTEN CAREFULLY PAGE, YOU MAYBE ABLE TO FOOL THE PUBLIC WITH YOUR CHEEP TRICKS, AND THE OTHER GULLIBLE, BUT YOU CAN'T FOOL ME.
I downloaded the SEGMENTS from the cited paper, available here:
[Invalid form] - Search Results - PubMed
AND the human mtGenome, here:
Human mitochondrion, complete genome - Nucleotide - NCBI
PAGE: Don't fool you? You ARE a fool.
Even Fred Williams had a redeeming quality (I cannot remember what it is right now).
You seem to be totally lacking.
Good bye. For good.
PB: Fred wasn't able to push you in a corner, I am.
So, when are you going to leave the board?
Good riddance to coarse language.
Best wishes, and have a nice rest of your life
Peter

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by derwood, posted 01-23-2003 3:29 PM derwood has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by Peter, posted 01-29-2003 2:12 AM peter borger has not replied

Peter
Member (Idle past 1479 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 98 of 101 (30513)
01-29-2003 2:12 AM
Reply to: Message 97 by peter borger
01-23-2003 5:56 PM


How many differences are there between human and chimp
mtDNA ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by peter borger, posted 01-23-2003 5:56 PM peter borger has not replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 99 of 101 (30564)
01-29-2003 10:13 AM


The thread's originator has requested that it be closed, and this topic is being discussed in other threads, so it seems a reasonable request. Any objections?
------------------
--EvC Forum Administrator

derwood
Member (Idle past 1876 days)
Posts: 1457
Joined: 12-27-2001


Message 100 of 101 (31851)
02-10-2003 8:32 AM


No objection, but an observation - the thread's originator seems to have a history of requesting that threads that he started that he is now unable to offer substantive "rebuttals" in be closed.

Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 101 of 101 (33674)
03-05-2003 1:16 AM


Topic closing down
See two previous messages also.
Peter Borger has just started a new "Dr. Page..." topic, so it seems that it's surely time for this one to close.
Adminnemooseus
------------------
{mnmoose@lakenet.com}

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