God is cruel

This is kinda an off-tpoic question, but maybe you can quickly answer it and we don't have to derail the thread and everything will be fine. I was just wondering why you left out the possibility that Jesus was the son of god and the things he claimed were true.

Hi CS, I do not believe in god(s).Brian.

How are any of those unique to Atheists? Not exactly. What Paul said is what I have always said.If there was not a resurrection, then the message of an afterlife, of heaven, is moot. It simply doesn't matter.There is nothing in your quote from Paul: has anything to do with belief. What he says is that if there is not a resurrection of the dead, the regardless of wht you believe, there is no resurrection of the dead. Yes, you have said that though I have not been counting. Yes, you have asserted that. But that has nothing to do with the issue of whether or not an Atheist would be saved. According to the Bible and the Creeds, God, for us and our salvation, came down from heaven and became man. There are no restrictions on who the "us" refers to. Neither source (although as is so often the case with the Bible you can find contradictory passages) says that you must be a believer to gain that forgiveness. Okay. Frankly, neither of us will really know the answer to that until we die.

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Oh, ok, that makes sense, duh.

They aren't. But an athiest is more likely to say "f*ckin Jesus H Christ" when they hit their thumb with a hammer than a Christian is. Yes, but he still maintains that you should take the resurrection as a real event. It's 100, 000, 003 now Which particular creeds? Apostle's creed, Nicene Creed,Athanasian creed?

You have never been around me while I worked on a car. LOL Yes, that is the Christian belief. But if the resurrection never happened then it's moot. Ain't it grand having so many to choose from? Certainly the Nicene and Apostles Creeds. Honestly I'd have to review the Athanasian Creed before answering on that one.

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

It is THEE Christian belief. But, for a Christian to be a Christian they would have to belive in their hearts that this was true, and if the resurrection wasn't true, then the Gospels are unreliable and worthless.The Nicene Creed is pretty specific about who Jesus came to save, namely:We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made. It then goes on to say: For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man. It is pretty obvious that the 'us' referred to are the 'we' in the first part.Apostles Creed:I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth.

​

And in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord; who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried; he descended into hell; the third day he rose again from the dead; he ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

​

I believe in the Holy Ghost; the holy catholic Church; the communion of saints; the forgiveness of sins; the resurrection of the body; and the life everlasting.

​

Amen Not much use to me LOL.The Athanasian Creed is more or less a proclamation about the Trinity.Brian.

But they are simply statements that define what a Christian believes, they do not preclude an Atheist from being saved.

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

quote:

---

I would have to say that even though you were made the way you are, you are still responsible for your actions because the are not predetermined and you choose to do the things you do.

---

protomenace isn't talking about actions; he is talking about belief. And people are not in control of their beliefs. They may exert some influence on their beliefs, for example, they might choose to ignore contrary evidence or refuse to think deeply about a certain matter. But once inconvenient facts enter into one's awareness, it is not so easy to control where one's thoughts and beliefs are going to go.

---

"Religion is the best business to be in. It's the only one where the customers blame themselves for product failure."
-- Ellis Weiner (quoted on the NAiG message board)

I know, I addressed that part.I don't think belief alone will get you into hell, it takes actions too.I could have left it at that but I saw no reason to just answer the question and stop the discussion. I'm saying that if the discussion is to move on we'd have to talk about actions and not just belief.

quote:

---

I know, I addressed that part.

---

Sorry. I thought I had read your post, but clearly not carefully enough.

---

"Religion is the best business to be in. It's the only one where the customers blame themselves for product failure."
-- Ellis Weiner (quoted on the NAiG message board)

How does one choose to believe in something? Or to not believe in it?

---

"We had survived to turn on the History Channel
And ask our esteemed panel, Why are we alive? And here's how they replied:
You're what happens when two substances collide
And by all accounts you really should have died."
-Andrew Bird

Really?Here's John 3:

quote:

---

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

---

(KJV)

So if God is so merciful why doesn't he simply put us back to the pre-fall position? instead of holding us all responsible for the actions of Adam and Eve however many thousands of years ago?why doesn't he make himself plain to us so we can actually exercise this "free will" he has endowed us with?Free will is worth nothing if you are not fully presented with all the choices. You yourself state that we do not currently have the ability to discern what is evidence and what is not.So, if God is fair, and merciful, the least he should do is give us the ability to make an informed, intelligent choice. Your understanding of the fall means we do not have this ability so long as our judgment is clouded.

quote:

---

So if God is so merciful why doesn't he simply put us back to the pre-fall position?

---

Yeah! Why don't we each get a chance to eat or not eat the apple?

---

"Religion is the best business to be in. It's the only one where the customers blame themselves for product failure."
-- Ellis Weiner (quoted on the NAiG message board)