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Author Topic:   We didn't pray
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 437 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 86 of 126 (295285)
03-14-2006 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by nator
03-06-2006 9:34 AM


Sunny day
The day the terrorists flew into the Twin Towers was a beatiful sunny day. Was God with them?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by nator, posted 03-06-2006 9:34 AM nator has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by ramoss, posted 03-15-2006 9:41 AM riVeRraT has not replied
 Message 88 by ringo, posted 03-15-2006 12:09 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 437 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 91 of 126 (295830)
03-16-2006 6:16 AM
Reply to: Message 88 by ringo
03-15-2006 12:09 PM


Re: Sunny day
Do you think maybe God "blinked" for a second while answering my unspoken prayer for chocolate chip cookies? Is that why He didn't stop the attack?
Can you explain biblically why God should have stopped the attack?
Or any bad thing?
Jesus prayed everyday, look what happened to Him.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by ringo, posted 03-15-2006 12:09 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by ringo, posted 03-16-2006 9:58 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 437 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 93 of 126 (296138)
03-17-2006 5:55 AM
Reply to: Message 92 by ringo
03-16-2006 9:58 AM


Re: Sunny day
I guess the question is: If God doesn't stop bad things from happening, what Good is He?
THis is what gets me. Many people in here call themselves scientifical, and logical, yet you couldn't have deduced the answer to that question from the reply your question was generated from?
The answer lies within the message you are replying to.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by ringo, posted 03-16-2006 9:58 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by ringo, posted 03-17-2006 11:18 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 437 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 96 of 126 (296303)
03-17-2006 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by ringo
03-17-2006 11:18 AM


Re: Sunny day
Ringo, I apologize. I think some of my message didn't make it for some wierd reason, I will answer your question, no problem.
God's ways are not our ways. You can read the story of Job for starters. Often times what we think is bad, is actually good.
You cannot be a great physician unless you toil through years of college.
You cannot be a great body builder unless you work-out. During that process you tear up muscles, so that they may be built back stronger than before.
When we experience what we percive as bad, it is actually God making things good. Nothing happens except by the will of the Father, so all evil is from Him, ultimately, since He should have the power to stop it.
I have found that in my own life, all the good, and the bad has onlypointed me towards one thing, and that was realization that God exists. My only true free will exists in whether I choose to believe in Him or not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by ringo, posted 03-17-2006 11:18 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by ringo, posted 03-17-2006 3:57 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 437 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 98 of 126 (296353)
03-17-2006 5:54 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by ringo
03-17-2006 3:57 PM


Re: Sunny day
2 miracles in one day, I can't take it.
You know, coming to this forum has helped me define that. I did not learn that in church.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by ringo, posted 03-17-2006 3:57 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by ringo, posted 03-17-2006 5:58 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 437 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 100 of 126 (296359)
03-17-2006 6:11 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by ringo
03-17-2006 5:58 PM


Re: Sunny day
I don't believe in odds. lol
Actually I have 5 miracles in total.
I classify a miracle here as someone atheist or agnostic agreeing with me, lol.
But like I told schraf in another thread, I have had numerous emails thanking me for certain words.

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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 437 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 101 of 126 (299744)
03-31-2006 7:27 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by nator
03-06-2006 9:34 AM


But someone did
What I find fascinating is that, if a believer had been in our shoes and had the same experience of this unseasonably balmy weather and quite seamless moving experience, I am quite positive that they would have attributed it to God, even though the experiences would have been exactly the same.
Comments?
In another thread, I just realized that even though you did not pray, I have been praying for you, and the people in my church have been praying for all those who visit this forum.
So now what?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by nator, posted 03-06-2006 9:34 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by nator, posted 03-31-2006 8:40 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 437 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 114 of 126 (300048)
04-01-2006 11:21 AM
Reply to: Message 103 by nator
03-31-2006 8:40 AM


Re: But someone did
It means nothing, really, which is my point.
Well, yes and no.
It's all subjective, or up to God.
The topic was that you didn't pray. My point is that you may have people praying for you anyway. So you can't claim that everything went ok even though you didn't pray.
What if we had had to drive through a terrible snowstorm and we had a wreck that hurt both of us seriously but not fatally? Then you could have considered your prayers answered because neither of us lost our lives.
That doesn't matter either. You found out that people are praying for you, that is what counts.
What effect it has on everything cannot be measured by science.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by nator, posted 03-31-2006 8:40 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by nator, posted 04-01-2006 12:01 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 437 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 116 of 126 (300101)
04-01-2006 3:39 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by nator
04-01-2006 12:01 PM


Re: But someone did
It matters if you want to say that prayer has any effects upon the Universe.
Of course it does.
But it is mostly a subjective thing.
Objectively I can say that yes, prayer does make a huge difference in my life.
Objectively I can say it makes a difference when I pray for others, especially when they say thanks for praying for me.
It cannot be measured at all, that's correct.
This then means that you cannot really say if prayer has any affect on anything.
Is science completely objective?
If it made a difference for me, then you can say it does have an effect.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by nator, posted 04-01-2006 12:01 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by nator, posted 04-03-2006 5:22 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 437 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 121 of 126 (300697)
04-03-2006 5:30 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by nator
04-03-2006 5:22 PM


Re: But someone did
In the end, it's all just individual assertion.
Scientifically speaking, I would say yes.
But there are a lot of conicedences going on that I see. But still remains the prayers that get answered no, that is where my doubt can lie sometimes.
But if I make a list, of things to be doubtful of, compared with things that I do not feel doubtful about, the second list is much larger, much much larger. I guess that is where the idea of the fall fits in. I don't think God ever said it was going to be easy.
It will always be subjective, and no scientific survey will ever produce a usable result about it. They will never know all the variables without seeing into peoples hearts.

This message is a reply to:
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