anti-abortion folks still get abortions

I guess researchers can't either, that's is why they use rats to test things to be later used on humans, because there is absolutly no similarities at all.Again complete argueing against something I didn't even say. I explained the fundemental differences between a fetus and a child. People say a fetus isn't life because if you remove it from the parent, or host, it can not survive on it's own. That is the spirit and contest inwhich we are talking, not some trick question about the differences between a rat fetus, and a human fetus. I am not a doctor, so it is not required of me to know the difference between a human fetus, and a rat. We are talking about human fetus's here, not rat's, so leave my fetus alone, it is irrelevent to the conversation. A rat's fetus is probably just as important to the rats survival, and a human one is to ours.You realize what your saying? Your saying that because I could not distinguish the difference between a rats fetus, and a human one, that murder is ok. What a logical arguement.The PETA joining, tree hugger, green peace liberal who is for abortion are hypocrites. All life is important, even thats rat's fetus. If you remove that fetus, then you have killed life.

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People say a fetus isn't life because if you remove it from the parent, or host, it can not survive on it's own.

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Not all people say that. Anti-abortion folks, for instance. Not even all pro-abortion people say that -- I don't say that, for example. So I guess I can be a Green Peace liberal without fear of hypocrisy, heh. (My mother will be so proud.)

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"Religion is the best business to be in. It's the only one where the customers blame themselves for product failure."
-- Ellis Weiner (quoted on the NAiG message board)

But it is, apparently, down to you to decide when life begins, at what point a quasi-living blob of cells becomes human, and whether or not a medical procedure should be made available to women.Why should someone who doesn't have the medical knowledge to identify a human fetus be making medical decisions? The Iraq-invading, death-penalty-supporting, NRA conservatives who are against abortion are hypocrites.See how easy these statements are when you assume there is no difference in context between different positions?

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"We had survived to turn on the History Channel
And ask our esteemed panel, Why are we alive? And here's how they replied:
You're what happens when two substances collide
And by all accounts you really should have died."
-Andrew Bird

Well then, the image was cleary not magnified enough, as there are huge differences (relatively) between the 2 beings. I wasn't even looking that close, I can see the tail now. I understand his point, but I countered it to show that it means nothing that the 2 look alike. But I agree.

That statement came from another thread really, where I asked someone who was atheist, and for abortion. I asked something to the effect if all life was important on earth, no matter how small it is. (he answered yes *edit)He thought I was talking about small creatures, and bacteria. But then I turned the response on him, and said everthing except a fetus.So really anyone that would go out of their way to defend a large mouth bass, and say that fishing is cruel, and then be for abortion, is just silly IMO.But would I use that to say that look, the pro-choicers are really for life, they stick up for trees, and kill fetuses, they stick up for fish, and whales but murder life, so abortion is bad!! No, my name is not Joyce whatever.This message has been edited by riVeRraT, 04-03-2006 05:23 PM

That wouldn't help. At that stage the human has a tail too.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

No you can't. It hasn't developed yet. That nubbin on the end is there on a human fetus as well. The above picture is a four-week-old human fetus. (No tricks this time; that's what it is.) And the two look nothing alike. The rat one looks way more human.You're contnuing to show a lack of medical knowledge. My same point stands; should someone without medical knowledge be making medical decisions?This message has been edited by [Dan's Clever Alias], 04-03-2006 05:27 PM

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"We had survived to turn on the History Channel
And ask our esteemed panel, Why are we alive? And here's how they replied:
You're what happens when two substances collide
And by all accounts you really should have died."
-Andrew Bird

Yes I do, but apparently you don't. See? Completely not what I was saying.What I said, if you'll go back and actually read, was that because you can't tell the difference between the fetus of a rat and the fetus of a human, you've got no basis whatsoever to conclude that a human fetus is a full-fledged person with the right to leech sustenance off a woman's body.Murder is never ok. But it isn't murder to kill a Rattus norwegicus because it isn't a person. Neither is it murder to kill a human fetus because, as you just proved, it isn't a person.It's really quite simple, RR. Sure. Just, not a life that was a person.

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That statement came from another thread really, where I asked someone who was atheist, and for abortion. I asked something to the effect if all life was important on earth, no matter how small it is. (he answered yes *edit)

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Well, the statement to which I was responding did not say, "This person says something, therefore this person is a hypocrite." You said, "People say something, therefore they are hypocrites."Come to think of it, "People say..." can mean "Some people say...." I interpreted it as, "All people say...." Just a reminder to be careful how you phrase things.Carry on.

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"Religion is the best business to be in. It's the only one where the customers blame themselves for product failure."
-- Ellis Weiner (quoted on the NAiG message board)

The point I am using has nothing to do with what a fetus looks like, so arguing about what one looks like, or comparing one to a rat's is irrelevent.Knowing that life is precious from the moment it starts in the womb, is not a medical decision, it's an obvious one.Is not a million to one sperm finding it's way into an egg after the beautiful act of making love, and starting a chain of events that will lead up to someone like you not one of the most beautiful things ever observed in the universe?I don't want to hear about the suffering childhood thing either, because some people have great childhoods, and suffer later, while some kids have a bad childood, and could turn out to be president.

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Knowing that life is precious from the moment it starts in the womb, is not a medical decision, it's an obvious one.

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Judging by how many people disagree with you on this, I would say that it is not at all obvious.But seeing how the word "obvious" is used on this board by some people (not just riverrat), it seems that "obvious" must mean "what I personally believe".

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"Religion is the best business to be in. It's the only one where the customers blame themselves for product failure."
-- Ellis Weiner (quoted on the NAiG message board)

Good thing we're not making the same point, then. The point I'm making is that you don't know enough about biology or medicine to speak with authority on the subject. The state of life, as it relates to biology, is not a medical decision? Weird.At least we've narrowed it down to "the womb", though. Where in that nine-month span would you place it? There's another beautiful procedure in which billions of single cells interact with the introduction of an outside substance into an orifice, and end with the creation of something that is expelled from the body. It's called taking a dump.Regardless, the creation of a child can indeed be beautiful... if it actually takes place. Birth control and abortion cut it off before it happens. So what's your point?If it's such a beautiful procedure that we should make sure every possible child is born every single time, then shouldn't we be forcibly inseminating women once a month, starting a month or so before their first period?

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"We had survived to turn on the History Channel
And ask our esteemed panel, Why are we alive? And here's how they replied:
You're what happens when two substances collide
And by all accounts you really should have died."
-Andrew Bird

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Knowing that life is precious from the moment it starts in the womb,

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So...you think that life starts after implantation?Or, does it start at conception?

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Is not a million to one sperm finding it's way into an egg after the beautiful act of making love, and starting a chain of events that will lead up to someone like you not one of the most beautiful things ever observed in the universe?

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I don't want to hear about the suffering childhood thing either, because some people have great childhoods, and suffer later, while some kids have a bad childood, and could turn out to be president.

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Yeah, and some kids have grown up to be Adolph Hitler, Jeffery Dahmer, and the Marquis de Sade.Using your logic, everybody everywhere should be having as many children as possible because of all the good that might be done by all of them.

Rat, I am wondering if you happened to get around to comparing the efforts of Planned Parenthood and the National Right to Life movement to prevent unwanted pregnancy? The links are in Message #166 of this thread.Thanks.