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Author Topic:   Do animals have souls?
lfen
Member (Idle past 2781 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 46 of 303 (298218)
03-26-2006 1:34 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by LudoRephaim
03-14-2006 12:43 PM


And if animals have a "soul" does that include fish? insects? bacteria? plants or trees?

What function is being represented by the word "soul"? Going into detail might illuminate the problem or it may as Wittgenstein pointed lead us to understand that we are not talking sense but only a syntax the gives an illusion of sense.

lfen


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LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 3188 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 47 of 303 (300976)
04-04-2006 6:14 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by lfen
03-26-2006 1:34 AM


Hello Ifen :)

By soul, I mean the supernatural essence of a living thing that lives on after death. Insects I believe have them, and I see nothing wrong with bacteria having them as well. Plants i'm not so sure, since they dont have the "Breath of life" like humans and animals do, which is believed by some to be "soul" (Reference will be posted soon)

Dont have time to debate now. Papers and reports to turn in and all at college. I'll see if I can reply again after semester.

peace :)


"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4
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LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 3188 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 48 of 303 (300977)
04-04-2006 6:19 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by lfen
03-26-2006 1:34 AM


This is the source which shows that some do think that the "Breath of life" is the immortal soul: Zondervan's pictorial Bible Dictionary, page 807 under "soul". Bible references are included to show this (Genesis 7:15) Genesis 1:30 also shows that the "Breath of life" belongs to animals as well as man.

Hope I helped :)


"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4
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Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6531
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003


Message 49 of 303 (300985)
04-04-2006 6:31 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by LudoRephaim
04-04-2006 6:14 PM


Hi, Ludo. Long time, no see.

What is the difference between bacteria and plants in regard to "the breath of life"?


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LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 3188 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 50 of 303 (300990)
04-04-2006 7:07 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Chiroptera
04-04-2006 6:31 PM


CHIRP!!
Hey Chirp :)

Micro organisms are not mentioned in the creation narrative, though they could be placed under "Creeping things" (Genesis 1:24,25,30)If so, they would have the "Breath of life". Plants are never mentioned as having the "Breath of life" in the Bible. Some might think that the "Breath of life" might be Oxygen, since animals and humans breathe in oxygen in and carbon dioxide out, while plants breathe in carbon dioxide and breathe out oxygen. But that would be reading too much into the text, and although God divinely inspired the written word (Christains like myself believe as such)he wrote it through ancient people who did not know advanced mordern science. The Bible is not a science book.

nice to talk with you again chirp :)


"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4
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Belfry
Member (Idle past 3189 days)
Posts: 177
From: Ocala, FL
Joined: 11-05-2005


Message 51 of 303 (300994)
04-04-2006 8:08 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by LudoRephaim
04-04-2006 7:07 PM


Re: CHIRP!!
Plants use respiration (requiring oxygen) in addition to photosynthesis. They use oxygen to release the energy stored in the carbohydrates synthesized in photosynthesis.

Here's a link for your perusal: Plant Respiration


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ramoss
Member
Posts: 3100
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 52 of 303 (301007)
04-04-2006 10:28 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by LudoRephaim
04-04-2006 6:14 PM


Well, what kind of evidence do you have that any 'essense' livs on past death, even of humans?
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LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 3188 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 53 of 303 (301059)
04-05-2006 9:21 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by ramoss
04-04-2006 10:28 PM


Why ask a scientific question about a theological concept?


"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4
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kjsimons
Member
Posts: 665
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003


Message 54 of 303 (301061)
04-05-2006 9:26 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by LudoRephaim
04-05-2006 9:21 AM


Why ask a scientific question about a theological concept?

Well, maybe because this topic is in the Science Forums. :rolleyes:


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ramoss
Member
Posts: 3100
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 55 of 303 (301064)
04-05-2006 9:37 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by LudoRephaim
04-05-2006 9:21 AM


This IS the science forum.
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LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 3188 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 56 of 303 (301385)
04-05-2006 10:19 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by ramoss
04-05-2006 9:37 AM


actually, this is a miscellaneous topics in CvE thread on a CvE forum. Creation VS Evolution cannot be discussed just using science, since it involves both natural science and theological concepts. I already said that this is a question about the supernatural,not science. This is about souls, which are known in theological books, yet void in natural science, becuase natural science an the supernatural are totally different beasts (Stephen Jay Gould's NOMA I believe applies here)
I already told someone else about this in this thread. Sorry, but you cant debunk souls scientifically since it is a supernatural concept, outside of natural science.


"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4
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AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 57 of 303 (301394)
04-05-2006 10:41 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by LudoRephaim
04-05-2006 10:19 PM


Actually, it is a Science Forumn.
Hate to break it to you. But THIS is one of the Science forums. If you want to support the existence of souls, then scientific evidence IS what will be needed.


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    tad askew
    Inactive Member


    Message 58 of 303 (302554)
    04-08-2006 10:02 PM
    Reply to: Message 1 by Yaro
    10-15-2003 5:02 PM


    animals do not have souls because the soul of a human is the part that God made in his image
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    pesto
    Member (Idle past 3692 days)
    Posts: 63
    From: Chicago, IL
    Joined: 04-05-2006


    Message 59 of 303 (303034)
    04-10-2006 7:26 PM


    This is an interesting question, because the answer has a lot to do with your specific beliefs.

    Atheists: Of course not, nothing has a soul (i.e. a spirit that lives for ever).

    Creationist A: Yes, the Bible says so (quotes passage).

    Creationist B: No, the Bible says so (quotes passage).

    Now where it gets interesting is in theological evolution. Assuming this starting point, humans evolved from our ape ancestors. If humans have souls and other animals don't, at what point did human ancestors start having souls? If animals have souls, what is the nature of their soul? Did our ape ancestors have souls? Our reptile ancestors? Our fish ancestors? How about the sponge, or the first eukaryotes?


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    New Cat's Eye
    Inactive Member


    Message 60 of 303 (303169)
    04-11-2006 10:36 AM
    Reply to: Message 59 by pesto
    04-10-2006 7:26 PM


    Now where it gets interesting is in theological evolution. Assuming this starting point, humans evolved from our ape ancestors. If humans have souls and other animals don't, at what point did human ancestors start having souls?

    Check out this thread: God as the source for man's creative explosion.

    Thats where I think it happened.


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