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Author Topic:   using your cd-rom to test for anthrax
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 29 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 16 of 45 (301615)
04-06-2006 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by crashfrog
04-06-2006 2:22 PM


Thank God
I freakin found it.
http://www.beyondtomorrow.com.au/stories/ep23/anthrax.html
This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by crashfrog, posted 04-06-2006 2:22 PM crashfrog has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 30936
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 17 of 45 (301619)
04-06-2006 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by riVeRraT
04-06-2006 2:32 PM


Re: Thank God
© Beyond Entertainment Limited 2005

Note the copyright.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by riVeRraT, posted 04-06-2006 2:32 PM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 29 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 18 of 45 (301621)
04-06-2006 2:42 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by jar
04-06-2006 2:35 PM


Re: Thank God
And that means?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by jar, posted 04-06-2006 2:35 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by jar, posted 04-06-2006 2:45 PM riVeRraT has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30936
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 19 of 45 (301622)
04-06-2006 2:45 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by riVeRraT
04-06-2006 2:42 PM


Re: Thank God
That means it is an entertainment program. And absolutely none of the points I raised earlier have been refited.

We never doubted that you saw such a program. The only issues were those I raised. The implications that this is some new thing that will be used outside the lab or that the technology was as you described it is simply silly.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by riVeRraT, posted 04-06-2006 2:42 PM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by riVeRraT, posted 04-06-2006 2:54 PM jar has responded
 Message 24 by Modulous, posted 04-06-2006 3:13 PM jar has not yet responded

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 29 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 20 of 45 (301628)
04-06-2006 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by jar
04-06-2006 2:45 PM


Re: Thank God
No, it's an entertainment company who does the producing, just like imax, or national geographic. It has no reflection on the program itself.

If you want to learn how it works you can follow the contact info at the bottom of the page:
Contact:
Dr. Cameron L. Jones
Swinburne University of Technology
Phone +61 (0)3 9214 8267
Fax +61 (0)3 9819 0821

This message has been edited by riVeRraT, 04-06-2006 02:54 PM


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Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by jar, posted 04-06-2006 2:59 PM riVeRraT has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30936
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 21 of 45 (301632)
04-06-2006 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by riVeRraT
04-06-2006 2:54 PM


Re: Thank God
But I don't need to know how it works. What we are discussing is your presentation of the subject. It's entirely possible that you simply completely misunderstood what the program presented, but what this thread is about is what you presented in the OP.

You take a blank cd, put a drop of water on the inner circle, add the suspected substance. Bake in an oven at 75F for 20 minutes. Add a protective cover, and insert into your cd rom drive. With the software it uses the laser in the drive which has a resolution to 300 nanometers? to read the image left by the stain. Then a spectrograph of sorts pops up on your computer, and you can just compare images. I think it even tells you what it is, if it recognizes it.

and that is just plain hilarious.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by riVeRraT, posted 04-06-2006 2:54 PM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by kjsimons, posted 04-06-2006 3:07 PM jar has responded
 Message 25 by riVeRraT, posted 04-06-2006 3:17 PM jar has responded

  
kjsimons
Member
Posts: 665
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003


Message 22 of 45 (301638)
04-06-2006 3:07 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by jar
04-06-2006 2:59 PM


Re: Thank God
I found a link to a very short article about this here:
http://www.swin.edu.au/corporate/marketing/mediacentre/core/releases_article.php?releaseid=600

It seems that the CD isn't blank but has some sort of pattern of data on it and different substances would scatter the light differently, so there might be some way of identifying what was on the disk. The thing is, if it were anthrax, the last thing you would want to do is handle it, much less spin it around at very high speeds. It would be slung all over the place if the cd wasn't sealed properly. It seems to be still in the research phase at any rate and may use special equipment not just any old cd drive as the article does refer to "new CD sensor technology".


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jar
Member
Posts: 30936
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 23 of 45 (301642)
04-06-2006 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by kjsimons
04-06-2006 3:07 PM


Never had a problem with that aspect.
I can even see some advantages of such a portable instrument for field identification. It was the specific items outlined in the OP that I was discussing, and every single one of the issues I identified still stands.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
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Modulous
Member (Idle past 214 days)
Posts: 7789
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 24 of 45 (301644)
04-06-2006 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by jar
04-06-2006 2:45 PM


interesting stuff/primary literature
Just had a look at the university website:

quote:
The CD itself can be thought of as a petri dish – the substance that is added interferes and ‘scatters’ the CD content introducing a new way of analysing it. The analog laser light interference pattern is then converted into a digital signal from the changes in voltage with this process all occurring in a matter of seconds.

The next step for the research, according to Jones, is standardising the hardware and software behind the myriad of CD and DVD drive models available, as well as testing other sensitive biological or chemical agents that have been used in bioterrorism.


Also,

This goes into it in more detail. Finally, here is a paper on the topic.

quote:
A CD-based biosensor device for quantitative determination of the differential Gram stain has been developed using consumer-grade hardware, and does not require a light microscope for analysis. The method has been tested against five strains of bacteria, against larger yeast cells, and against an image template that could be printed directly onto CD in different
colours.

An equation has been developed and applied to help in bacterial classification by relating properties of mechanical drive performance with nanoscale bit level data comparisons. The cells act like nonlinear photonic filters, and IR-light scattering through the
deposits under rotation acts like a spectral map for spatial properties of the biological population.



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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 29 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 25 of 45 (301649)
04-06-2006 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by jar
04-06-2006 2:59 PM


Re: Thank God
hilarious, is that a Christian term, or is that how you love me like you love yourself?

I pretty much got it word for word how it happened, except maybe for the temp of the oven, which I may have not heard correctly.

If you weren't so busy trying to make me look like a fool, you might have learned something. I can't see how your approach is even remotely Christian.

But if I was to examine everything you said, you would find that if you watched the show, that you were completely wrong in all of your assertions, but one. Nothing was negated. They used an ordinary cd rive, that is what they said on the show, not a special one.

They also said blank cd.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by jar, posted 04-06-2006 2:59 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by jar, posted 04-06-2006 5:40 PM riVeRraT has responded

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 29 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 26 of 45 (301653)
04-06-2006 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Modulous
04-06-2006 3:13 PM


Re: interesting stuff/primary literature
Thank you for posting that.

They did mention that similiar technology can be used to identify bacteria.

he analog laser light interference pattern is then converted into a digital signal from the changes in voltage with this process all occurring in a matter of seconds.

According to crash this is impossible?


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Replies to this message:
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 29 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 27 of 45 (301655)
04-06-2006 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by kjsimons
04-06-2006 3:07 PM


Re: Thank God
The thing is, if it were anthrax, the last thing you would want to do is handle it, much less spin it around at very high speeds.

Hence the plastic cover, that jar said won't fit in the drive. cough cough.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by kjsimons, posted 04-06-2006 3:07 PM kjsimons has not yet responded

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 29 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 28 of 45 (301662)
04-06-2006 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by jar
04-06-2006 11:31 AM


Re: sorry but this one seems just plain funny.
Well, no you can't. You cannot program a CD drive to read areas where the head cannot physically cover.

LOL

The world IS flat, really!!!

You just cannot be wrong, is that it?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by jar, posted 04-06-2006 11:31 AM jar has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by NosyNed, posted 04-06-2006 4:21 PM riVeRraT has not yet responded
 Message 31 by New Cat's Eye, posted 04-06-2006 4:43 PM riVeRraT has not yet responded

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8842
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003
Member Rating: 7.5


Message 29 of 45 (301685)
04-06-2006 4:21 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by riVeRraT
04-06-2006 3:29 PM


Wrong?
You just cannot be wrong, is that it?

Jar may well be wrong about this. He may also have a much better BS detector than you do. I wouldn't get to much of your own skin in this when you don't actually know much about what you saw.

Jar is pointing out (guessing I think) some problems with this idea. Until they are answered we don't know who is wrong.

I think that past threads suggest that your BS detector is very weak indeed. You should take that into consideration.

The truth is we don't know enough but if I have to guess I'd say this is BS.

There is some hint that it isn't. I think I've gotten a wee bit closer to the source.

http://www.beyondtomorrow.com.au/stories/ep23/anthrax.html

Going from there to the Swinburne U. website leads to a dead end for some reason. There is one paper in their newsletter that talks about early anthrax detection but no more.

I think we need to email Dr. Jones.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by riVeRraT, posted 04-06-2006 3:29 PM riVeRraT has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 4132 days)
Posts: 1567
Joined: 06-10-2004


Message 30 of 45 (301688)
04-06-2006 4:39 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by NosyNed
04-06-2006 4:21 PM


RiverRat is looking pretty right to me...
According to Modulus' link to the primary literature, RiverRat's description is pretty darn good.

The group used standard blank CD-Rs, and analyzed them in a standard CD-ROM drive in a PC laptop running Windows.

As long as the contamination issue is properly dealt with, this seems like a great, portable, cheap, and easily accessible system for on-site analysis. All someone would really need is the CD covers and analysis software, (and perhaps protective gear depending on the type of sample they were analyzing). Everything else can be bought at the mall.

Interesting find, RiverRat.


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