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Author Topic:   The Case Against the Existence of God
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 114 of 301 (301938)
04-07-2006 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by robinrohan
04-05-2006 8:19 AM


Satheism, Watheism
They've divided atheism into Strong and Weak atheism, which I will call Satheism and Watheism, respectivey.
Satheism is the belief that god does not exist.
Watheism is the lack of a belief that god does exist.
You are calling for a evidence against the existance of god to support Satheism.
There is no evidence against the existance of god
For this reason, Satheism is as logically ridiculous as theism.
Watheism, on the other hand, is making no positive assertion, so it requires no evidence to back it up.
You have Watheists on this thread arguing against your position against Satheism, you guys aren't talking typing about the same thing.
Side note: The Watheists claim that theirs is the default position, that you are born lacking belief until someone feeds it to you. It would be interesting to see the result of a Forbidden Experiment for this, whether or not an isolated individual would come up with a god or not. If they did, would the Watheists still consider their position to be the defult? How would they react to the result?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by robinrohan, posted 04-05-2006 8:19 AM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by Larni, posted 04-07-2006 11:21 AM New Cat's Eye has replied
 Message 165 by robinrohan, posted 04-07-2006 3:27 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 124 of 301 (301961)
04-07-2006 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 117 by Larni
04-07-2006 11:21 AM


Re: Satheism, Watheism
I've asked at least twice for any reason to entertain the existance of a god and have had no reply.
There being more people that do believe in god than do not is a reason to, at least, entertain the possibility of the existance of god.
The Bible makes a claim that god exists. That is a reason to, at least, entertain the possibility that god exists.
Me telling you that god does exists is a reason to entertain the possibility too.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by Larni, posted 04-07-2006 11:21 AM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by Larni, posted 04-07-2006 11:48 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 129 of 301 (301979)
04-07-2006 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 127 by Larni
04-07-2006 11:48 AM


Re: Satheism, Watheism
I can't help but think that appealing to the majority or authority is a logical fallacy.
So.
I maintain that they are reasons to entertain the possibility of the existance of god.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Larni, posted 04-07-2006 11:48 AM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by Larni, posted 04-07-2006 12:27 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 142 of 301 (302010)
04-07-2006 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by Larni
04-07-2006 12:27 PM


Re: Satheism, Watheism
Then entertain the Green Lantern Hypothosis.
Absolutely. It has been entertained and considered.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by Larni, posted 04-07-2006 12:27 PM Larni has not replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 163 of 301 (302066)
04-07-2006 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 161 by robinrohan
04-07-2006 3:17 PM


missed me?
------>Message 114<------ reply?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by robinrohan, posted 04-07-2006 3:17 PM robinrohan has not replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 167 of 301 (302073)
04-07-2006 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by robinrohan
04-07-2006 3:27 PM


Re: Satheism, Watheism
Is there a difference between this and agnosticism? Seems the same to me.
I don't really see much of a difference but the Watheists say there's a difference. Maybe one will chime in and explain it to us.
There is no evidence against the existance of god
There might be. I'm not sure yet.
Nor will you ever be.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by robinrohan, posted 04-07-2006 3:27 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 169 by robinrohan, posted 04-07-2006 3:38 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 173 of 301 (302085)
04-07-2006 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 169 by robinrohan
04-07-2006 3:38 PM


Re: Satheism, Watheism
What makes you so certain?
Because you can't logically conclude that something does not exist(except in math).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by robinrohan, posted 04-07-2006 3:38 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by robinrohan, posted 04-07-2006 3:52 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 179 of 301 (302094)
04-07-2006 3:56 PM
Reply to: Message 176 by robinrohan
04-07-2006 3:52 PM


Re: Satheism, Watheism
You might if they have certain definite qualities which contradict existent things.
for example?
And how will you be sure these qualities are definite?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by robinrohan, posted 04-07-2006 3:52 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 181 by robinrohan, posted 04-07-2006 4:00 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 184 of 301 (302101)
04-07-2006 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by robinrohan
04-07-2006 4:00 PM


Re: Satheism, Watheism
You figure out that these qualities would be the only attributes of God that made sense.
Well I would deem that argument illogical.
Making sense to us has nothing to do with gods attributes. In fact, I think the main attributes of god cannot make sense to us (omni-anything, for example).
You could determine if a God as described in the OP would logically have produced such a universe as we see. If not, He does not exist. But it's very tricky.
While this might be a possible argument to make, you couldn't determine if the god was described accurately. Still, I think the argument would be illogical.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by robinrohan, posted 04-07-2006 4:00 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 186 by robinrohan, posted 04-07-2006 4:10 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 190 of 301 (302108)
04-07-2006 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 186 by robinrohan
04-07-2006 4:10 PM


Re: Satheism, Watheism
Why would it categorically be illogical?
I don't know.
Anyways...
Making sense to us has nothing to do with gods attributes. In fact, I think the main attributes of god cannot make sense to us (omni-anything, for example).
While this might be a possible argument to make, you couldn't determine if the god was described accurately.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by robinrohan, posted 04-07-2006 4:10 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 191 by robinrohan, posted 04-07-2006 4:36 PM New Cat's Eye has replied
 Message 192 by Faith, posted 04-07-2006 4:40 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 197 of 301 (302124)
04-07-2006 4:55 PM
Reply to: Message 191 by robinrohan
04-07-2006 4:36 PM


Re: Satheism, Watheism
something ain't right here, why are there two message 191's?
Now, there are 2 explanations for the origins of the universe:
1. It was created by an eternal Being
2. It has always existed in some form.
There are your choices. There are no others.
False. It could have not existed in some form and then came into existance, not by an eternal being, but for no reason at all.
It would have to be the Being described in the OP.
False. It could be the Green Lantern. But, for the purpose of this thread we will consider it that being.
OK, assuming the first premis is true and considering the being in the OP, now you have to show how that being makes a contradiction with something we know is true and you've got a case against the existance of the god described in the OP, right?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by robinrohan, posted 04-07-2006 4:36 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 199 by robinrohan, posted 04-07-2006 4:59 PM New Cat's Eye has replied
 Message 200 by robinrohan, posted 04-07-2006 5:01 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 201 of 301 (302135)
04-07-2006 5:05 PM
Reply to: Message 199 by robinrohan
04-07-2006 4:59 PM


Re: Satheism, Watheism
What I did in the OP was ask a question. Was there such a case?
And the answer is no. Case closed.
Nothing can come from nothing.
Something can come from something.
Nothing can come from something.
Something can come from nothing.
This game's no fun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 199 by robinrohan, posted 04-07-2006 4:59 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 203 by robinrohan, posted 04-07-2006 5:09 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 202 of 301 (302137)
04-07-2006 5:08 PM
Reply to: Message 200 by robinrohan
04-07-2006 5:01 PM


Re: Satheism, Watheism
It would have to be the Being described in the OP.
False. It could be the Green Lantern.
Not unless Green Lantern is another name for God. He would be merely a being arising from Nature. Revert to #2.
It wasn't a reply to your false delimma, it was a reply to it having to be the god described in the OP.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 200 by robinrohan, posted 04-07-2006 5:01 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 204 by robinrohan, posted 04-07-2006 5:12 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 206 of 301 (302143)
04-07-2006 5:16 PM
Reply to: Message 203 by robinrohan
04-07-2006 5:09 PM


Re: Satheism, Watheism
No, nothing can come from nothing. There always had to be something.
That doesn't refute the point that there doesn't have to be a 'reason', such as a creator, for the existance of the universe to emerge while it hasn't existed forever. It could have came into being naturally, without a god.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by robinrohan, posted 04-07-2006 5:09 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 209 by robinrohan, posted 04-07-2006 5:21 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 207 of 301 (302145)
04-07-2006 5:18 PM
Reply to: Message 204 by robinrohan
04-07-2006 5:12 PM


Re: Satheism, Watheism
Well, let's have your argument.
Both of you premises are false.
How is it a false dilemma?
see previous post.
How is my argument about the God in the OP wrong?
It doesn't have to have the attributes you described.
I might very well be wrong.
Oh, you are.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by robinrohan, posted 04-07-2006 5:12 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 210 by robinrohan, posted 04-07-2006 5:21 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

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