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Author Topic:   Who represents Christians if Falwell, Dobson and Robertson don't?
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 175 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 106 of 120 (282277)
01-29-2006 7:18 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by nator
01-28-2006 6:43 PM


Re: Duh
Jesus is on the board, he's been mentioned several times.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by nator, posted 01-28-2006 6:43 PM nator has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by nator, posted 01-29-2006 12:08 PM riVeRraT has responded

  
nator
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 107 of 120 (282293)
01-29-2006 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by riVeRraT
01-29-2006 7:18 AM


Re: Duh
Great, I'd like to start a Great Debate with him.

Somehow, I think he will bugger off.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by riVeRraT, posted 01-29-2006 7:18 AM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 175 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 108 of 120 (282346)
01-29-2006 4:40 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by nator
01-29-2006 12:08 PM


Re: Duh

Great, I'd like to start a Great Debate with him.

Somehow, I think he will bugger off.

Then you already have.

This message has been edited by riVeRraT, 01-29-2006 04:40 PM


This message is a reply to:
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Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3893
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 109 of 120 (282348)
01-29-2006 4:52 PM


Repeating message 1 yet again
I have been wondering about the complaints I have been hearing from Christians who say that Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson and James Dobson do not speak for them even though they are the three most prominent Christian political and religious figures in America today.

Clearly, all three are radical right-wing Fundamentalists and only represent a small but vocal minority of Christians in the US. However, they are the only prominent political Christian voices I ever hear, and this tends to color my view of American Protestant Christians overall.

Why is there no organized, vocal mainstream Christian opposition to these men, and if they do not represent "the rest of the Christians", who does?

People, we're looking to discuss worldly people, that at least allegedly spread the teachings of Christ. As such, who are the alternatives to Falwell, Dobson, and Robertson?

Adminnemooseus


    
randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3154 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 110 of 120 (282365)
01-29-2006 6:32 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by Ben!
01-28-2006 8:48 AM


Re: Duh
Ben, I think the representatives of Christianity to non-Christians are the Christians that people know personally. I also think there is a wide range within Christians.

I also think that people need to judge accurately. They say, hey, this Christian preacher or leader is doing wrong, and you know, I agree, but it comes back to them as well. What are they doing as people? What do the leaders and people representing their ideas do?

Unfortunately, the American public as a whole has lost it's way in terms of morals, imo, both Christian and non-Christian.


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nwr
Member
Posts: 5586
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005


Message 111 of 120 (282370)
01-29-2006 6:56 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by randman
01-29-2006 6:32 PM


Re: Duh
Unfortunately, the American public as a whole has lost it's way in terms of morals, imo, both Christian and non-Christian.

I disagree with that.

I see the American public, as a whole, having a strong moral sense. There are, of course, individuals of poor morality. But there have always been such.

I suspect that those who say things such as what I quoted from randman, are influenced not by the public as a whole, but by the media. But it has always been the case that media portray what is out of the ordinary. Shakespearean plays are not exactly about neighborhood knitting sessions.


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Replies to this message:
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Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3893
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 112 of 120 (282371)
01-29-2006 6:59 PM


DUH DUH DUH DUH DUH! - Temporary closing coming soon
Going to close this topic so that everyone can think about coming up with meaningful subtitles.

Adminnemooseus

This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 01-29-2006 07:00 PM


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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3154 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 113 of 120 (282373)
01-29-2006 7:10 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by nwr
01-29-2006 6:56 PM


meaningful....morals
It's not the media. It's experience that tells me have weakened morally. First though, let me say that there are some improvements. I think we have improved morally when it comes to race relations and some other smaller-scale issues, such as whether we allow date-rape, bullying in schools, open tolerance and celebration of drunkenness, and some other issues.

In terms though of basic morality, I think we have slipped. I think we are far more likely to use the law to attack and sue one another, and do so in a dishonest manner, lying in deposition, etc,...if that advances our cause. I think, in general, we lie a lot more as a soceity. I think sexual abuse and abduction of children, substance abuse, probably infedility, and other things probably as well have increased.

In general, I think we are much more amoral, especially the GenX generation and younger Baby Boomers, and that a sense and perhaps even ability to assess basic moral fairness has at times been corrupted. I think a lack of moral fiber and toughness, and an increase in selfishness probably lies at the root of the high divorce rate.

The values of America are probably best expressed as personal comfort and self-fulfillment.

This message has been edited by randman, 01-29-2006 07:12 PM


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Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3893
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 114 of 120 (282378)
01-29-2006 7:36 PM


Disregard of the topics theme - Closing for a while
1) Track down one of the messages with message 1's content (hint: there are 5 of them, and one is message 1).

2) Use that content to guide the content of your new messages.

Adminnemooseus

This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 01-29-2006 07:37 PM


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Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3754
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 115 of 120 (288400)
02-19-2006 6:46 PM


Baptist minister Will Campbell
It's great to have a really handy admin available to reopen a topic for you.

The first 4 paragraphs of an article, as quoted from http://www.nashvillescene.com/Stories/Cover_Story/...:

Writer and renegade preacher Will D. Campbell is probably the only ordained Baptist minister dead or alive ever to call one of the Southern Baptist Convention’s highest ranking officials a “hypocrite and a jackass.” To his face, no less.

There’s been a heap of bad blood between Campbell and the honchos of that Nashville-based religious convention juggernaut that characterizes itself as “America’s largest non-Catholic denomination with more then 16.3 million members in 43,024 churches nationwide.” That’s because, in books, speeches and interviews, Campbell keeps poking the brethren in the butt with his theological pitchfork. And he’s about to get it out again with a new book in the works and reissues of two of his most anti-institutional novels.

“Soul molesters, that’s what I call these television evangelists,” Campbell says during an interview at his log cabin writing retreat just across the Davidson County line in Wilson County. “Soul molesters. That bunch that call themselves Christian. They are not Christian, but a very powerful political group…. Groups like those with Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell, those people that run the [Southern Baptist Convention] Lifeway show. They don’t show me much about the Christian faith. They hate, hate everybody except themselves and their power. Falwell stood down there at the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) meeting in Nashville recently and said, ‘We won this election.’ And he spoke the truth. They did elect George W. Bush.”

As Campbell sees it, the well-heeled, Bible-thumping folks at the SBC have abandoned Christ in favor of Caesar, turned their dark suits and ties toward the Golden Calf of politics and away from the strict separation of church and state tradition of the Baptist church. He characterizes as unchristian the SBC’s support for the death penalty, the war in Iraq, the bashing of gays and lesbians, and sexist prohibitions against women in the ministry.

There is much more to read at the cited page.

I was guided to the above via this topic at Terry's Talk Origins. Thanks for which go to "The Great Society".

Moose


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jar
Member
Posts: 31262
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 116 of 120 (288403)
02-19-2006 6:51 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by Minnemooseus
02-19-2006 6:46 PM


Re: Baptist minister Will Campbell
Amen, preach the Gospel Brother.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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nator
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 117 of 120 (288404)
02-19-2006 7:06 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by randman
01-29-2006 6:32 PM


Re: Duh
quote:
Ben, I think the representatives of Christianity to non-Christians are the Christians that people know personally.

Ouch.


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 Message 110 by randman, posted 01-29-2006 6:32 PM randman has not yet responded

    
Mr. Ex Nihilo
Member (Idle past 4804 days)
Posts: 708
Joined: 04-12-2005


Message 118 of 120 (302264)
04-07-2006 11:48 PM


Where Did Love Fall? by David Haggith
I've felt for some time that articles like this accurately portray a sizable majority within Christian circles. The articles discusses the fall in the garden from a similar yet surprisingly different take than usual.
    
anglagard
Member
Posts: 2200
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 119 of 120 (302273)
04-08-2006 2:01 AM


I once again find myself as a non-Christian Spinoza Panthiest forced to defend the basic ideals of Christianity against some misguided, incorrectly self-proclaimed (and false) Christians.

I just finished watching Kurosawa's Red Beard about a self-important doctor being forced to help the poor and unattractive aganst his will being interned to a wise and, dare I say, humanistic, doctor who opens his eyes as to the true meaning of ministering to the diadvantaged. I recommend this movie to everyone who can handle subtitles.

I find it appalling that so many self-proclaimed Christians are so eager to judge and condemn anyone who does not share their exact sect/cult interpretation of the Bible. This is a direct violation of the first commandment concerning placing oneself above God as the final judge of any individual. Who among the self-proclaimed judges is not placing thier own final judgment above that of God's and therefore making themselves a god before and other than the Christian God.

Which brings me back to the movie, why is it more important for the so-called-Christian enemies of God, regardless of if they call themselves evangelicals, fundametalists, creationists, or whatever, to attack science than it is to do good deeds that could acually help people?

The message of the New Testament is clear. Get off your fat ass and help the unfortunate. What moron said Jesus died so that Falwell, Robertson, et al. could line their pockets. Evidently that moron has more adherents than the true message of Christianity, which is evidently too difficult for most so-called adherents to actually adhere to.

This message has been edited by anglagard, 04-08-2006 02:12 AM

This message has been edited by anglagard, 04-08-2006 02:15 AM


Replies to this message:
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anglagard
Member
Posts: 2200
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 120 of 120 (302274)
04-08-2006 2:08 AM
Reply to: Message 119 by anglagard
04-08-2006 2:01 AM


I forgot to say in true religion regardless of which religion that may happen to be, there is humility before God.

In politics there is no humility.

How do politics and God mix?

They don't, it is an insult to any true God.

This message has been edited by anglagard, 04-08-2006 02:13 AM


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