Are Most Of Us Doomed? (Matt 7:13-14)

Honestly, this is something that still confuses me. Why in Rev 14:9-11 does it give a picture of everlasting torment, but it is called the 2nd "death". Death seems to me to be an end to life and consciousness. This part backs up what I was saying though. I've read somewhere that brimstone (sulfur) was often used in some temples as a "purifying agent" that made a sacrifice pure before it was burned. I think the sulfur here is symbolic to show us that the fire and sulfur are God's holiness and purity consuming everything that is not pure and holy.By simply coming full strength into the presence of The Lamb, the holiness and purity radiating outward is what tortures and consumes the unholy.But again, I don't understand how something can be continually "consumed" for eternity. If it is consumed it is burned up to exist no more in its former state.

Well, first you have to file your tax forms and apply for the exemption.

For what its worth I think Hangdawg is a fair ways off. If he were right (and assuming I am taking him correctly - I probably am not) it would mean that someone lucky enough to have been born poor and suffered 50 odd years of misery is more likely to reap eternal life than someone unlucky enough to have been born in the west who enjoys 70 years of "relative" bliss.Lucky/unlucky...would have trouble finding biblical evidence as to its veracity

Hi again PD. Hell is either stated or implied in a few OT scriptures, btw. The Psalmist in 17:5 says "The wicked shall be turned into hell and all the nations that forget God". As you say, it''s another topic so I'll not belabor it here.The whole subject of atonement for sins encompases a large portion of both OT and NT scriptures. Imo, the fact that millions of animal sacrifices in the OT and the vicarious death of God's on son, Jesus in the NT attests to the seriousness of the consequences of sin, implying a doomsday for unbelievers who do not avail themselves of the compassionate remedies Jehovah God has provided so as for them to be saved out of the hell, for according to Jesus and other writers who warned of it, no matter how one interprets, it would be terrible.I see nothing to loose and everything to gain having availed myself of the salvation provision. Literal Biblical Christianity has blessed my life immensly for the past six decades since conversion at age 10 and provides the "peace that passes all understanding." My approach to these doomsday scriptures is to take them literally and be on the safe side. I'd hate to sooth someone's fears by telling them not to sweat doomsday if indeed the scriptures really mean what they appear to be saying in a literal sense. That, imo, would be doing them a great dis-service. I've come to understand the whole Bible, including the prophecies by keeping them as literal as possible. This has given wonderful insight as to the meaning of life, why history has been as it is and where the world is headed as we are clearly entering the era of what the scriptures call the "latter days."

---

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW

you mean 9:17?you understand of course that jewish sheol (grave/underworld) is quite a different concept than the christian hell, right? right, and people atone just fine. most sins don't even require sacrifice. the eternal punishment aspect just isn't there -- the punishments in the old testament are all here and now. sending someone to sheol -- the grave -- was death. one of the patriarchs even mentions that he's going to "hell."

---

It's not about luck. Its about God's choice.What about Lazarus? Or this statement by Jesus: Or this parable: Or this one:

quote:

---

My approach to these doomsday scriptures is to take them literally and be on the safe side. I'd hate to sooth someone's fears by telling them not to sweat doomsday if indeed the scriptures really mean what they appear to be saying in a literal sense.

---

Nothing I've said lessens the warning of Revelation, but the teaching that Jesus was presenting on the mountain in Matthew 7 was before his death and resurrection.In Matthew 5&7 Jesus is not preaching about the good news, repentence or salvation. He is teaching about right behavior and the Kingdom of God. Only those who follow the will of God will enter God's kingdom.IMO, he is teaching the importance of following God's laws, which was a harder path at that time, than the less retrictive Greek ways.

---

"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

I think Jesus was talking about spiritual poverty as opposed to temporal poverty. A person who is starving spiritually is more likely to turn to he who can provide spiritual nourishment.Whilst there is a case for saying that the worlds riches can mask the fact that one is spiritually starving, it doesn't necessarily have to do so unto death. It may delay turning but won't necessarily prevent turning. Similarily, a temporaly poor person might mistake their spirual hunger for temporal hunger and spend their lives in pursuit of temporal thingsI do not see heaven as being populated predominantly by the temporally poor and hell by the temporally rich

I figure if I get too old and sick to work and have to live off social security, that should be poor enough.

Social security would be a veritable kings ransom to most. Ever consider a monastary RR?

Arachnophilia's reference is right. I don't know what Sheol literally meant or was understood to mean, or whether it meant the same thing to all of the Old Testament writers. The same can be said of Gehenna and Hades elsewhere in the Bible.

---

Never overestimate the intelligence of someone who thinks you're wrong.

sheol literally meant "grave." there's some difference of opinion on what it meant to certain authors.

---

One point.The term that is translated to 'hell' in the Tanakh is Sheol, which basically means 'the grave'. To refer to 'hell' for something is to say they died/were killed/ and often it is referencing a violent death.You are taking the word of of cultural and religious context.

welcome to christianity -- a fundamental reinterpretation of jewish ideas.

---