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Author Topic:   We didn't pray
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 24 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 121 of 126 (300697)
04-03-2006 5:30 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by nator
04-03-2006 5:22 PM


Re: But someone did
In the end, it's all just individual assertion.

Scientifically speaking, I would say yes.

But there are a lot of conicedences going on that I see. But still remains the prayers that get answered no, that is where my doubt can lie sometimes.

But if I make a list, of things to be doubtful of, compared with things that I do not feel doubtful about, the second list is much larger, much much larger. I guess that is where the idea of the fall fits in. I don't think God ever said it was going to be easy.

It will always be subjective, and no scientific survey will ever produce a usable result about it. They will never know all the variables without seeing into peoples hearts.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by nator, posted 04-03-2006 5:22 PM nator has not yet responded

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4656
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 122 of 126 (300716)
04-03-2006 7:21 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by nator
04-03-2006 5:22 PM


Re: But someone did
I agree that looking at it this way, you win.

You just have to understand that the desire to believe itself is strong. Why is this so?

(For us, fear of death etc...isn't enough to dissuade us from thinking that we are more than mere animals).

If prayer experiments don't show anything, then I'm not going to argue with the results. As far as I'm concerned, those results are exactly what God wants them to be. I am honest enough to even not argue if they indicate that God isn't there.

I suppose that for you, the simplest answer is that it's psychological. If it is, and there is no heaven, then sorry if I was wrong, because I didn't mean to be, I am just convinced that Christ is true. Can you understand?

If you can't understand, then all I can say is that it's what drives me, atleast. A bit like a supreme motivation that conquers everything else and makes it look silly. Ever felt it? Well, that's the feeling it is, but very strong, and it doesn't need a REASON because it's real.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by nator, posted 04-03-2006 5:22 PM nator has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by nator, posted 04-04-2006 9:20 AM mike the wiz has responded

  
nator
Member (Idle past 275 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 123 of 126 (300813)
04-04-2006 9:20 AM
Reply to: Message 122 by mike the wiz
04-03-2006 7:21 PM


Re: But someone did
quote:
(For us, fear of death etc...isn't enough to dissuade us from thinking that we are more than mere animals).

I think that the fear of death is exactly the reason people believe all sorts of irrational things.

quote:
If you can't understand, then all I can say is that it's what drives me, atleast. A bit like a supreme motivation that conquers everything else and makes it look silly. Ever felt it? Well, that's the feeling it is, but very strong, and it doesn't need a REASON because it's real.

Nope, can't say that I've ever felt it, even when I was a believer.

I absolutely believe that your feelings are real. But it is far, far more reasonable and likely that we convince ourselves in our feelings about God than the other way around.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by mike the wiz, posted 04-03-2006 7:21 PM mike the wiz has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by ramoss, posted 04-04-2006 12:58 PM nator has not yet responded
 Message 125 by mike the wiz, posted 04-05-2006 12:53 PM nator has not yet responded

    
ramoss
Member
Posts: 3100
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 124 of 126 (300869)
04-04-2006 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by nator
04-04-2006 9:20 AM


Re: But someone did

I think that the fear of death is exactly the reason people believe all sorts of irrational things.

I do not believe that is the only, or even the primary reason for believing irrational things.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by nator, posted 04-04-2006 9:20 AM nator has not yet responded

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4656
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 125 of 126 (301137)
04-05-2006 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by nator
04-04-2006 9:20 AM


Re: But someone did
I absolutely believe that your feelings are real. But it is far, far more reasonable and likely that we convince ourselves in our feelings about God than the other way around.

Does it matter, in regards to his existence? Why is it more likely? Perhaps the feeling is an indicator that God does exist rather than an indicator that he doesn't.

Is the feeling evidence that he exists? If he does exist then it was correct.

You have a broken clock. You look at it and it says 9am. You therefore state that it is 9am as you don't know it's broken. You then find out that it's broken and that it was 9am anyway.

Were you correct about it being 9am? Are you incorrect because the clock was broken?

:)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by nator, posted 04-04-2006 9:20 AM nator has not yet responded

  
Shalini
Inactive Member


Message 126 of 126 (302762)
04-09-2006 11:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by nator
03-06-2006 9:34 AM


Sheer chance. Nothing more.

(shrug)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by nator, posted 03-06-2006 9:34 AM nator has not yet responded

  
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