Created in the image of God

"I do not believe that my comment was in any way insulting or demeaning to you.
--Trust me, its allright, It didn't bring a tear to my eye, though comments as such indicate just a little too much confidence in your rebutal, this is something that as you look throughout my posts, I greatly avoid, that way when a real successful rebutal is made, you don't look too awkword, kind of like the analogy, of flowing with the river and not bumping into rocks or struggling to swim the other way."How do we know if those dates are accurate? the fact of the matter is that we dont."
--Interesting..."But historians work by comparing historical records from different times periods in a given culture and draw a conculsion from there. It is concievable that the dates given in those ancient records are flawed or attempts at deception for some reason we can only guess at"
--I don't think it would be a purposful action of deception of these given dates, though I do speculate that it is based on a flawed dating method. It would be interesting to read on how they actually do 'work by compairing historical records from different time periods in a given culture', also I would speculate that many of these historical records may have been passed down by oral tradition, for example, I believe that odysseus's voyage was a true event, though greatly exadurated because of this oral tradition.but then,couldn't the same thing be said about ALL historical and pseudo-historical accounts...including the Bible?"
--It would... but the problem with accusing the bible as such, is we have a geneological record, ie, lifespans of Adam all the way up to christ who we know exactly when his death occured, unless ofcourse you would like to count those 3 days untill his ressurection."However it is,i believe,reasonable to assume that people who bothered to keep historical accounts back then were as thoughrough as we are today."
--Lets consider it as if much of these historical counts were brought down by oral tradition, now wouldn't the bible be no more correct than these others? The problem is that when the bible was written it was written to give truth and historical accuracy, as to entertainment to people sitting round the camp fire or something of that nature."So what we have are conflicting informations from different source. I have a natural tendency to believe more information that come from what i would call non-coercive sources myself(i.e. with no "either you believe this and that or you burn in hell forever,you heathen" type of threats) so i tend to believe non-dogmatic historical records over dogmatic ones."
--I have a tendency to believe the same from fallable sources, ie, that are not the bible. The bible I believe not because it says 'either you believe this and that or you burn in hell forever, (discluding the 'you heathen' part as I think it would be used for someone directly violating scripture in the bible, such as a sorcerer or pegan idolotries and such) but because it doesn't counter you in such an attitude, as it speaks volumes of love of the creator for his creations. Really, he could strike us all dead right now and it would be perfectly lawful for God to do so, as we are sinners and continuously violate his word. As for non-biblical sources, I tend to think the same way, and if it does counter you in such a way, I ignore them, and I look at their science, considering creation science ministries and such."I also have great difficulty with the flood story because to me,such an act of unbridled malovelance and destruction is diametricaly opposed to the nature of a nurturing Creator."
--This is a big question, to me I am about neutral as it pertains to this question, why would a loving God go and just kill everybody on the planet. I am neutral because I see it as a very sad event as anyone would, but at the same time you see justice, and judgement, and then you look at it again and you see love and compation. As if he did not do such a thing, we would all be in the same position, Though I think it is worse today than in Noah's day, there are millions that are saved christians on the planet, hey if there werent, Im sure God would do something about it. Also God Gave the people 100 years while building the ark to repent and not one of them did so, they all thought he was crazy! (personally I would think the same thing today, but that is because It would contredict scripture) So why would God wipe out all those even unborn babies? Well really God was doing them a favor in a way, as he was bringing them to heaven, rather than letting them be born in such a wicked world and grow to be shown either God doesn't exist or that he is bad or you should just do whatever you want and it doesn't matter, fullfill your lust.------------------

"The Bible does have a genealogy but there is absolutely no physical evidence to substanciate it either(i.e. no tombs from Adam and company)"
--What would you expect to find? We can't find the Garden of Eden either, but its obvious, what do you think would happen to it if a Global Flood swept the land? And if he was burried in a cave...what cave? Caves were formed by the Flood, unless they created the tomb themselves."One could say that they were destroyed during the flood but i'd say thats rather conveniant."
--More than conveniant, its pretty much obvious."Also,the Hebrew,who are the first writers of the Bible did not begin to write it down until 1700 BC so everything before that was oral history and as such,subject to the same possible corruption over time."
--The date at which Genesis was first written is unknown, though its endint time is suspected to be around this area, I think I remember that Genesis was written by multiple people, and Moses put it together."And as i said,i believe that the biblical legends are inheritance of the babylonian and sumerian myths anyway."
--You can believe that if you would like, but it seems you would have alot more Faith than I do to do so."As i explained yesterday,i do not think of God as a God of autority and perfection,making every effort to tolerate our sinfull nature out of love."
--Then you don't believe anything the bible has to say do you?"I do NOT believe that God holds us to a strict standard of perfection you describe."
--I never said we were perfect, we are a far cry from perfect, and when he made us, we were made as perfect towards his plan, ie that doesn't mean that we were also infinite for example."And i certainly do not believe that God would punish us with eternal damnation should we fail to meet that standard."
--Who said God punished you for doing so? God doesn't send you to hell, you send yourself there, besides God didn't make Hell for you, he made it for Satan and his angels. (Actually the Lake of fire was, as Hell is actually temporary)"I believe that God's love for us is completely and utterly unconditional,like the love of any good parent for their children."
--Amen."I believe that Jesus Christ was a part of God,sent here on earth to set the record strait and make certain we understood this basic fact."
--Exactly, he said it himself, "I am the truth the light and the way, no one sees the Father and enteres the kingdom of Heaven accept by me"."And i firmly believe that every culture received such a mesage from God,in one form or another."
--In one for or another true."I also believe that God dislike the concept of organized religion...Jesus certainly was not a partisan for it."
--Also true, thats why it is relationship, not religion."I believe that the relationship between us and God is completely personal and involves no specific rules."
--Hm..True, but I would speculate on what you mean by 'involving no specific rules'."I do believe that God gave us some basic rules of conduct to illustrate how we should be good to one another. I believe in the ten commandements and try to abide by them as much as humanly possible because to me,they are completely logical and necessary to sustain any form of long term community but i dont believe for one second that God made ANY rules beyond those (i.e. rules against eating pork,working on the sabbath,homosexuality,ect)."
--I see the ten commandments as the fundemental laws, the only way you will get to heaven is to follow these laws in the old testament, and do sacrifices to repent of doing so and so on. But since Jesus died on the cross, he made a kind of medium, such a beautiful picture was painted all throughout the book of Job as he so much described the need for a way to Heaven in such a way, thus Jesus Christ.
--Though I do believe you are so dreadfully wrong on Homosexuality, it is directly condemned in the bible."And i dont believe that God would ever destroy the world to make a point and on that particular point,my position will remain as such unless God in person tells me otherwise."
--Such people say things such as this for the reason they don't believe in God, though this is not fundemental for you to inheret the Kingdom of Heaven, it seems to be tugging on you greatly and dragging you down, and he didn't just destroy the world to make a point.------------------

"I know that Homosexuality is expressly condemned in the Bible but i'm convinced that God had nothing to do with that condemnation winding up in there...This is clearly a cultural bias of the ancient Hebrew that has stuck with us like a bad stain and i hope that we will get rid of it eventually (the idea that homosexuality is somehow wrong). Homosexuals are who they are because thats how God wants them,for some reason we can only guess at(diversity,testing man's tolerance of the difference,population control,ect) Interestingly,Jesus makes absolutely no mention about homosexuality."1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NIV): "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters, nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."Leviticus 18:22 (KJV): "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind it is abomination."Leviticus 20:13: "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." Today the penalty of death comes in the form of AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases...Romans 1:24-32:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.--Obviously Homosexuality is not a very good thing...Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.--More can be found at http://www.bible.com/answers/ahomosex.html
--It is clear allll throughout the bible it speaks of homosexuality not as something Jesus tolerates nore scripture, and is simply abomination.------------------

"TC,you can quote all the Biblical condemnation of homosexuality till the cows comes home,you are still quoting the OPINIONS of MAN writen by the hand of MAN. You may believe your Bible to be God inspired...I,however,do not."
--I don't have a problem with what you believe, but as for your assertion that the bible says otherwize on homosexuality, it sertainly doesn't.------------------

"Unfortunately AIDS affects heterosexuals that have only had sex with their husbands/wives as well.Why punish these people?"
--I'm sure you are aware of the origins of the HIV virus.------------------

"And BTW TC,Aids is next to non-existant among homosexual women (lesbians) so your contention that AIDS is somehow a punishement for homosexuality is absurd."
--Technically it wasn't even my material... as I gave you a link to the copy/paste."Aids is a plague that is ravaging Africa even as we speak. Are you gonna pretend that they are being punished for being black?"
--You do know the origins of the virus im sure, I know two implications that sort of connect together. Something done by a couple of people, can have a major effect on the world. I would never assert such a racist comment, racism is far from the subject."This sort of idiotic "natural catastrophies are actually divine punishements" mentality belongs in the dark ages,mr Torquenada..."
--Mr. Torquenada? Again it wasn't my comment, though you cannot fight with the bible if you are going to make such an implication that it does not condemn such acts. Homosexuality is totally another subject anyways and is right in there next to opinion and doesn't have much at all to do with the creation/evolution debate.------------------

"I am well aware that it makes this condemnation and as i said,its merely reflecting the opinions held by the men who wrote the Bible,much that nonsense about multi-thread clothings. This is what is called a cultural bias and there actually a very secular explanation on possibly why the early hebrew saw fit to put this nonsense in their holy book. If you're interested i'll tell you about it."
--Tell me about it.------------------

"Thats actually very simple. Early man lived very much in extended families or tribes and unlike what the book of genesis quite ridiculously advances,the average lifespan was considerably shorter back in those days..."
--As I have continually emphesised for you, these old ages are nothing like 'rediculous' as you so portray it to be like so, as you simply have to admit that it is not rediculous, unless ofcourse you can give me a comment a little better than 'but the fact is that cancer cells are deadly to human life so they certainly do not allow us to live 900 years'."you were lucky if you lived to the ripe old age of 60,especially if you were a man. The list of attrition factors was very long; war,famine,disease,droughts,animal predation,you name it. The deck was very much stacked against humanity because aside from our higher cognitive capabilities,we have really no natural deffense(claws,fangs,fast locomotive capabilities to get away or wings to fly,poisonous skin,hardened scales,ect). Man really had only two things going for him...his brain power,as i previously mentionned and procreation. Having as many children as possible that could either become deffender or providers for the tribe at a very early age(10-12 years old on average) was the best way to offset the many difficulties they faced everyday. And because men were the ones doing most of the dangerous work (war,hunting,building things) and because women have on average a longuer lifespan then men,there were almost always more women then men in early tribes. Given all these factors,it natural that they took a very dim view of male homosexuality back in those days because every homosexual couple meant that there were less children being born to the tribe an this flew right in the face of their very survival. So the holy men/priests/rabi of those tribes who were for all intents and purposes representative of the law in the tribe,declared male homosexuality a sin punishable by death and wrote it in their biblical laws,along with other similar laws,like eating shellfish or porks,both of which are dangerous to consume if they are not prepared properly."
--Great story there, ofcourse this assumes that Evolution happens, and cannot go against the bible unless that is true, so it is circular reasoning, assuming that the Biblical Creation is right, this story is nothing short of fairy tail. And it is not surprising that God would have people write in the bible on sanitation laws, they didn't even know about Germs and bacteria and yet the bible portrays their presence."Its also interesting to note that there's really not much condemnation in the bible for FEMALE homosexuality."
--No actually, it condemns them equally, as when they do speak of condemning homosexuality, it condemns not only men but women to do so."The reason is that polygamy was a common practice back in those days as well,because of the larger number of women compared to the number of men and it was viewed as perfectly natural and even desirable that the many wives of a man be inclined to feel a close kinship and even pleasure each other when the husband was busy with one(or sometimes two or three) of his many wives or away at war/hunting. And considering how the vast majority of men get a kick out of watching two women doing it."
--Again great story, but it assumes as I stated above."its likely that the foolish rabi the would put down such practice as sinfull in the bible would have been quickly replaced by a more reasonable rabi...but that last one is just my humble opinion...:-)."
--The bible refers to homosexuality for both men and women when it discusses it, and it seems as it all is an opinion that the skeptics would see as more attractive than the bibles."Anyway,as you can see,you dont need God to suddently find something sinfull....sometimes,secular reasons will do just fine."
--Sure you can make up a story for almost anything really, but what your going to need now is potential falsification, so how is your story more accurate than the biblical portrayment discluding a basis in opinion."The problem is that we inherited that mentality along with their religion but the situation that created the problem the early hebrew faced does not exists anymore. Humanity is thriving on earth to day and is not threatened with extinction...at least not by factors that have anything to do with homosexuality but unfortunately,the cultural bias remains to this day even though the reason for it is long gone."
--The reason for it can go either in your view of it being an 'extinction problem' or it can go in the bible as obviously a practice that will get yourself into the hands of disease as happens abundantly today, and also as simply an abomination that God didn't make you to do. So, is there any way you can think of falsifying the bibles view without the basis in opinion? Or is it all simply opinion?------------------

"This not an opinion TC...this is anthropological data gathered about the myths and custums of people who lived back then. Its based of writings as well as art and good old fashion common sense."
--Quite vague, as I asked if there is any evidence for falsification of the biblical presentation as we have discussed, so is there any evidence against it, or is it all for it, if there is evidence to contrast in any sence at all."You are always speaking about your Bible is if its was somehow special and unique...there are dozens of different "holy" books across dozens of different cultures. Why should yours be any truer."
--Because it has not been falsified, it is completely true,
(as long as it is falsifiable, as some parts in the bible require complete faith, that is, there is no evidence for or against it, this would require faith) front to back cover, from everything that we find that can be tested, it comes up positive, if you would like to list anything else you think is eroneously proclaimed in the bible, I'd like to discuss it's feasability, unless you fear it is all accurate."What i told you about homosexuality has nothing to do with evolution."
--I never said it was, you brought it up and I could help but comment."As i said,it a cultural thing,nothing more."
--Sure, but it could also be a law ordained by God himself, but I know you wouldn't examin it."Are you really gonna stand (or sit) there and tell me that all mighty God took even one second of his eternity to make up rules about sexual practices,what we eat(pork and shellfish)"
--Well actually he didn't take a second, as time did not exist . God layed down these commandments, some for our safety, and some to make us realize we are not perfect, and that we need a savior, being what the bible teaches."and how we dress(Bible says no cloth weaved with more than one thread,its a sin)? Come on,TC...even you cant be that gullible."
--Assuming it requires gullibility, but where did you get the 'no cloth weaved with more than one thread' being a sin in the bible?-----------------

"TC,the bible does not require to be proven false....it has to be proven true...at least as far as i'm concerned."
--Like I said before, when someone seeks to present it as being false, it on the contrary is proven feasable (No one can say true, no matter what the evidence of the past, thus evolution, but if you going to say that Evolution is fact, then it is no more fact than the falsifiable truths of the bible)."The multi thread cloth laws are in levictus i believe,along with the pork,shellfish and homosexuality laws."
--I couldn't find anything on shellfish or pork or even multi thread cloth in leviticus?--Though, I found these other sanitation laws in leviticus quite amazing:Leviticus 11:25 Whoever picks up one of their carcasses must wash his clothes, and he will be unclean till evening.Leviticus 11:32 When one of them dies and falls on something, that article, whatever its use, will be unclean, whether it is made of wood, cloth, hide or sackcloth. Put it in water; it will be unclean till evening, and then it will be clean.Leviticus 11:31 Of all those that move along the ground, these are unclean for you. Whoever touches them when they are dead will be unclean till evening.Leviticus 11:33 If one of them falls into a clay pot, everything in it will be unclean, and you must break the pot.Leviticus 11:34 Any food that could be eaten but has water on it from such a pot is unclean, and any liquid that could be drunk from it is unclean.Leviticus 11:35 Anything that one of their carcasses falls on becomes unclean; an oven or cooking pot must be broken up. They are unclean, and you are to regard them as unclean.Leviticus 11:37 If a carcass falls on any seeds that are to be planted, they remain clean.Leviticus 11:38 But if water has been put on the seed and a carcass falls on it, it is unclean for you.Leviticus 11:39 If an animal that you are allowed to eat dies, anyone who touches the carcass will be unclean till evening.--And there is much more in this chapter of Leviticus, I find this amazing as it ties in directly to diseases and germ related problems, that obviously would have been solved by obeying God, who knew Germs existed."And as i said,the Bible does not condemn FEMALE homosexuality...at least not specificaly. You can decide to infer that it does but that is just your opinion,not a fact..."
--Actually it is fact that the bible condemns female homosexuality directly:--While discussing homosexual abomination in Romans--
Romans 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature"i'd even go so far as to say that most of your interpretations are very much your own BTW..."
--Like what? Is it not obvious."i've spoken to other christian believers that gave me different explanations for some of my questions...One of them actually agreed with me about homosexuality and said that what the Bible actually condemns is homosexual prostitution and not the loving commited relationship of either two men or two woman...perhaps it would help if you guys all got together sometime to get your stories strait...no pun intended."
--That would be great, I don't know if you can find the guy again though."Homosexuality per say is not more dangerous than heterosexuality btw...aids is not born from frictioning body parts...its a virus...it has to exist in one of the two homosexual men in order to be transmited. Promiscuous and anonymous unprotected sex...now thats playing the roulette big time but thats true for both strait and gays...and even then,not women...there is no single documented case of female to female transmition of any sexually transmited disease in medical science. But as i said...you can choose to infer that God wrote the Bible through the hand of man if you so desire"
--I don't think that it has to be a cause of a disease neccessarelly, though origins of diseases could be linked to it in some form or another, though I don't see that argument relevent enough. The fact is that God didn't create us to do such things, so he condemned it because it is a pleasure not focused on God but your own lust.
--Also, though it isn't sexuality, the HIV virus I believe originated in the perverse actions that went to South America and had sex with the Green Monkeys, I believe."i choose to go with the more logical and likely conviction that man came up with the Bible all on his own."
--Well all I have to say is, God, we must have been extreamly smart then! -------------------

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[This message has been edited by TrueCreation, 02-02-2002]

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[This message has been edited by TrueCreation, 02-02-2002]

"Actually,you dont need to have sex with a monkey to gets hiv...any mixing of bodily fluids will do (say like monkey saliva mixed with human blood,the result of a monkey bite)."
--Mabye not but thats what they did, and that is what it is traced to, sex with the green monkeys, besides, I am not sure about the monkeys but, the HIV virus isn't present in saliva."You dont need God to discover that some things are hazardous to do..."
--Well first, God disn't 'dicsover' it, he made it himself, so whats there to discover? Also, he didn't need to tell us to just trust him because he knew, sure, but he did because he's a God of love, not death and survival of the fittest or something of the nature."its more likely that some people tried them first,they got sick and died and THEN,the laws were enacted. Its quite probable that back then they believed that God was directly punishing the offenders and had no knowledge whatsoever of what germs were."
--Like I would continuously emphesise that an approach like this will be more atractive to a biblical skeptic. Oddly, they seem to know how diseases are transmitted, and possibly how to diffrentiate viruses from bacteria. The thing is, that if you were to take all of those sentances and replace unclean with diseased, or germ infection, or something like that, it is completely scientifically accurate, which could be what they meant by unclean. Also, it says God said these things, not man."As for homosexuality,you say God did not make us to do this..."
--Ofcourse, if we wan't to figure validity and feasability, we must do so."this assumes that A: God DID make us,an assertion with no facts to expressly back it up or that B: thats God DIDN'T intend for some men and some women to be homosexual...again,just your and your chosen mythology's OPINION."
--Not my opinion, the bibles, we are discussing the bible right?------------------

"Why don't you perform blood sacrifice on the altar anymore, even though it is commanded in Leviticus? In fact, the first NINE chapters of Leviticus concerns itself with bloody sacrifice. Far less time is spent on homosexuality."
--Untill Jesus was crusifide, this was true and we would still have to do it, but Jesus was the last sacrifice paying for all our sins."15:19-30, 33 God lays down the law on menstruating women. Such women are to God both filthy and sinful, and anyone who comes near them is contaminated by them."
--You streched them outragiously, God in no way said they were filthy or sinful, God said they were unclean, and as depicted throughout the rest of leviticus, this means that a disease is easilly transmitted, thus menstruating women. It also sais men who discharge are unclean also, how ironic? Not ironic at all today actually, since knowledge has increased as is also prophesied in the bible, though is obvious that knowledge would increase, it is odd to know that it increases in such a way as if the rapture were to happen any minute now, but anyways."12:1-8 Women are dirty and sinful after childbirth, so God prescribes rituals for their purification. If a boy is born, the
mother is unclean for 7 days and must be purified for 33 days; but if a girl is born, the mother is unclean for 14 days and be
purified for 66 days. This is because, in the eyes of God, girls are twice as dirty as boys."
--I think you are reading the wrong bible or something, it did not say they werre dirty or sinful after childbirth. I am not sure what would be the difference of the 33 or 66 days you would have to ask some sort of doctor for an answer to that. But I know off the top of my head the other, as the bleeding occuring after childbirth is obviously a indictation of uncleaness, also it is odd how circumsision is to be done on the 8th day, as it is done today if you want to have a baby circumsised the 8th day is the time when least possibility of illment or infection will occur."God really doesn't like women, does he?"
--You stretch the truth way too far, but also note that it wasn't adam who ate the apple, it was eve."Don't round the corners of your head or mar the corners of your beard. 19:27"
--I find it odd how you only quote versus like these, why not quote some like this:
"`Do not eat any meat with the blood still in it. "
"`Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD.
"`Do not degrade your daughter by making her a prostitute, or the land will turn to prostitution and be filled with wickedness.
--Why not any of these? Is it your just seaking the ones that appeal to you?"Children who curse their parents, adulterers, and homosexuals must be killed. 20:9-12"
--Yup, good thing we have a medium today, that is, we have Jesus."Woman with "familiar spirits" must be stoned to death. 20:27"
--That is, a man or woman that is a medium/sorcerer.
"A man or woman who is a medium or spiritist among you must be put to death. You are to stone them; their blood will be on their own heads.'""The unchaste daughters of priests must be burnt to death. 21:9"
--You make it sound so much like it isn't.
"`If a priest's daughter defiles herself by becoming a prostitute, she disgraces her father; she must be burned in the fire.""Handicapped people must not approach the altar. 21:16-23"
--You make it sound so bad, I would like a defect in those days, it basically says that they don't have to do this, so they are not to go near the alter,21:22 - "He may eat the most holy food of his God, as well as the holy food;"21:23 - "I am the LORD, who sanctifies them; or who sets them apart as holy "
Sanctified means:
-To set apart for sacred use; consecrate.
-To make holy; purify.
-To give social or moral sanction to.
-To make productive of holiness or spiritual blessing.--To be crippled was almost a blessing."Cursers and blasphemers must be stoned to death. 24:16, 24"
--Sure must, as goes for God's people too, you make it sound so bad, luckly we don't live in that day and age, we have Jesus."God places a dollar value on human life; with women worth less than men. 27:3-7"
--How is this bad, Eve picked the apple and gave it to adam, it wasn't the other way around, if you are to assume that any of these quotes make relevance, you must assume the adam and eve 'myth' is true."11:10-12 Clams, oysters, crabs and lobsters are abominations to God."
--I believe such crustaceans can carry many diseases harmful to us, in that day, it would have been a safty rule, such as God sure didn't want them to eat them."18:29, 19:8 "Whosoever shall commit any of these abominations ... shall be cut off from among their people."
--Yup, pretty smart of God, otherwize plagues and diseases would run rampent."19:18 "Love thy neighbor as thyself." This is by far the best verse in Leviticus, and one of the best in the entire bible. It
seems out of place here, however, since in the next chapter God orders us to kill wizards (20:6), children who are
disrespectful toward their parents (20:9), adulterers (20:10), and homosexuals (20:13). And throughout the Old Testament,
God encourages the Israelites to kill their neighbors every chance they get. (See Numbers 31 and 1 Samuel 15 for just two
of many examples.) "
19:15 "`Do not pervert justice; do not show partiality to the poor or favoritism to the great, but judge your neighbor fairly."
--It states that your neighbor isn't allways the nicest person or the following Gods commands. The Old testement was pretty strict."20:10 Both parties in adultery shall be executed."
--Were you just expecting the woman to be executed?"20:11 "And the man that lieth with his father's wife ... both of them shall be put to death." Which? The man and his father?
The father and his wife? Or the man and his father's wife? Oh heck, just kill all three."
--Hm.. I think this is where we pick up a little common sence, ok so..Who sinned? Was it his daddy? Nope, was it mabye, the adulterer and the adultress? Yup, I think thats using a bit of logic."20:12 If a man "lies" with his daughter-in-law, then both must be killed."
--Sure, yup. Were you still expecing the dauter in law to be exicuted because God is favorable to the woman to such a degree?"20:14 If you "lie" with your wife and your mother-in-law (now that sounds fun!), then all three of your must be burned to
death."
--Sounds fun? Oh my, well, still, Gods rules, (this is pretty sick anyways I think!)"20:15-16 If a man or woman "lie with a beast" both the person and the poor animal are to be killed."
--Yup, and the problem?"20:27 People with "familiar spirits" (witches, fortune tellers, etc.) are to be stoned to death."
--Yup."21:18 Anyone with a "flat nose, or any thing superfluous" must stay away from the altar of God."
21:20 A man with damaged testicles must not "come nigh to offer the bread of his God."
--Again, I quote from above:

quote:

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--You make it sound so bad, I would like a defect in those days, it basically says that they don't have to do this, so they are not to go near the alter,

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21:22 - "He may eat the most holy food of his God, as well as the holy food;"

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21:23 - "I am the LORD, who sanctifies them; or who sets them apart as holy "
Sanctified means:
-To set apart for sacred use; consecrate.
-To make holy; purify.
-To give social or moral sanction to.
-To make productive of holiness or spiritual blessing.

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--To be crippled was almost a blessing.

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"22:3-5 A man who is unclean, or is a leper, or has a "running issue", or "whose seed goeth from him", or who touches any
dead or "creeping thing" ... "shall not eat of the holy things, until he be clean."
--Yes it does say that, why is that bad, again, a sanitation law."23:29-30 Don't do any work on the day of atonement or God will destroy you."
"24:14-23 Anyone who blasphemes or curses shall be stoned to death by the entire community."
--Pretty strict in that day, huh."19:19 "Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with a mingled seed: neither shall
a garment mingled of linen and woolen come upon thee." I'm glad God told me about this, I was just about to do some of
these awful things."
--Really you were? In other words, God is saying, don't mate your dogs with your sheep, or hour horse with your goats. And don't where the linen material the offspring may produce.------------------

"I don't think anyone here is out to trash the Bible. There is a lot there, but you can't be tied up in a rigid, literal reading."
--I know you can't take everything literally, it takes a bit of human understanding and a little bit of common sence to understand it."I left my resume in the other computer (the "fast" one). - Why is my 66 MHz 486 kicking my 800 MHz Athlon's butt on the internet?"
--Wow, I havent had a 486 66Mhz in like..well I never had one! Our first was a 90Mhz, that was a good ol 95' comp, right after win95 came out But I got a 33Mhz 486 mini 85' labtop, its nice for typing and some little entertainment with little games. but anyways, Its probley cause ur 66 is on a faster modem, probley has a cable, and ur 800 has a 56k or something, this would make an emense difference.------------------

"--While you are right about HIV not being present in saliva, the rest has little scientific backing. First of all, green monkeys are from Africa not South America. Next, the green monkey theory is no longer supported as the origin of HIV. It was proposed by Robert Gallo in the early 80's and later discredited. Most scientists studying HIV believe it came from SIV from a sooty mangabey or chimpanze or both. In Western Africa chimps were commonly kept for food and as pets. The process of butchering monkeys for food provides an easy way for HIV to infect humans. Much more likely then monkey sex, which in my opinion is most likely fictional or a exageration of certain practices based on cultural bias."
--Thanks for the new information, so how exactly was the 'Green monkey theory' discredited? At least we know it would have come from some sort of monkey or chimp and in the family.------------------

"You know what TC? As far as i'm concerned,anyone who can sit there and defend this mythological garbage is no better than the animal religious fanatics who flew those planes in the WTC on sept 11."
--So in other words, you cannot defend what you have previously stated? I was practically positive that it would come down to this level, cobra's statment was right on the money. It seems you only have interest in your own pre-consieved belief, and thus have no intrest on the contrary. I could say the exact same thing towards yourself, but what would that mean? That I would be pretty ignorant to not follow such an assertion without a single ioda of backup. If discrediting the bible is so simple, thus it is logical to say, a simple mind can figure it out, you should be beyond this."There's only one reason that may be invoked to kill someone...if that someone is trying to kill you or someone you chose to protect for whatever reason and any God that says otherwise is no god of mine,never was and never will be."
--Thats unfortunate, I guess we need to realize that we arent God, we don't know his plan, and even when we can figure out that if these laws werent layed down our very existance would be threatend."I can understand the need of some people to believe in God figures and let their priests and "holy" teachings govern their own existance but when you start advocating the murder of fellow human beings simply because they were born gay or have the inborn capacity to attune themselves with nature the way mediums do,you crossed the line from benevolent religious beliefs to barbaric cult practices."
--For one, your not born Gay, secnd, God does not lower the handicapped, as I stated above, and also, mediums if the Bible is true, are direct enemys of God.---Continued by Edit:"The world has allready suffered ONE dark age because of superstitious crap like that and does not need another. Thankfully,we are slowly but surely outgrowing this nonsense in western societies and the rest of the world will follow suit."
--really now? So what dark age was the bible the cause of? Or was it the impitant mind of people?------------------

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[This message has been edited by TrueCreation, 02-05-2002]