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Author Topic:   flying spaghetti monster flap in kansas
EZscience
Member (Idle past 5180 days)
Posts: 961
From: A wheatfield in Kansas
Joined: 04-14-2005


Message 3 of 148 (304210)
04-14-2006 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by arachnophilia
04-14-2006 3:33 AM


Church of the Flying Spagetti Monster
Check out Bobby Henderson's website. Hilarious. I just ordered a T-shirt.

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 Message 1 by arachnophilia, posted 04-14-2006 3:33 AM arachnophilia has not replied

EZscience
Member (Idle past 5180 days)
Posts: 961
From: A wheatfield in Kansas
Joined: 04-14-2005


Message 6 of 148 (304254)
04-14-2006 3:05 PM


spiderlover writes:
one of the people that voted to allow creationism in classrooms...
That Connie Morris. She's not just an embarassment to Kansas, she's an embarassment to herself.

EZscience
Member (Idle past 5180 days)
Posts: 961
From: A wheatfield in Kansas
Joined: 04-14-2005


Message 20 of 148 (308655)
05-02-2006 11:01 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by GDR
05-02-2006 5:26 PM


Accidents
Here is the beginning of a rather unproductive argument regarding what does and does not constitute an accident. I hope, for everyones's sake, that we don't have to cover this pedantic ground again.
GDR writes:
... can't be any more far fetched than the idea that we and this universe came into being by some cosmic accident
Pray expound to us your reasoning that this scenario should seem to you so improbable?

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 Message 18 by GDR, posted 05-02-2006 5:26 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by GDR, posted 05-03-2006 5:13 PM EZscience has replied

EZscience
Member (Idle past 5180 days)
Posts: 961
From: A wheatfield in Kansas
Joined: 04-14-2005


Message 24 of 148 (308928)
05-03-2006 10:38 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by GDR
05-03-2006 5:13 PM


Re: Accidents
Hi GDR.
I think the other 2 respondents to your post picked out the same two statements that I would have.
To postulate design, once you have a good understanding of how evolution works, seems to me far more improbable (not to mention unecessary) than any 'chance-based' explanation, especially given that the actual mechanisms explaining such changes have been clearly delineated and verified by observartion and experimentation. This can not be said for any ID interpretation of how nature 'works'.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by GDR, posted 05-03-2006 5:13 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
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EZscience
Member (Idle past 5180 days)
Posts: 961
From: A wheatfield in Kansas
Joined: 04-14-2005


Message 60 of 148 (309379)
05-05-2006 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by GDR
05-03-2006 11:05 PM


Re: Accidents
Crash has already covered two points here quite well, so I won;t address those.
GDR writes:
It would seem logical that evolution would occur gradually but consistently over time.
Not necessarily. That is now refered to as 'gradualism'. Gould put forward the idea that some changes can occur very quickly (in evolutionary time) and that these rapid changes can be interspersed by long periods of virtual stasis. This is now known as the theory of 'punctuated equilibria'.
GDR writes:
I think it is far more likely given the design involved that these genetic mutations were either designed initially or guided throughout the process by an external intelligence.
Most of us working in biology would not agree with this. When you say 'given the design involved' you are making a huge leap of inference that is not supported by any evidence. It is merely an impression precipitated by your incredulity of the complexity you are observing.
Where is the evidence of the designer, or even evidence of any 'guidance' in the process of evolution? There is none. Postulating guidance is a dangerous first step on a path toward a teleological interpretation of life. It's just simply not needed - an unnecessary adddition that doesn't improve or enhance any aspect of the theory.
GDR writes:
Given human consciousness and our sense of right and wrong, love and hate etc, I find it extremely difficult to believe that it too just evolved naturally.
Why not? All these things can be construed as adaptations in different context within human evolution.
GDR writes:
To me it's just obvious
To scientists it isn't obvious at all.

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 Message 25 by GDR, posted 05-03-2006 11:05 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by GDR, posted 05-05-2006 1:33 PM EZscience has replied

EZscience
Member (Idle past 5180 days)
Posts: 961
From: A wheatfield in Kansas
Joined: 04-14-2005


Message 64 of 148 (309409)
05-05-2006 2:22 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by GDR
05-05-2006 1:33 PM


Re: Accidents
I can see you are a rationale and objective person and you have apparently reached a 'personal equilibrium' w/r/t the design issue vs. science. I don't want to be argumentative or try and disrupt that equilibrium, but I will address this:
GDR writes:
I would add though, that there is no evidence that supports the notion that there is no intelligence behind our existance.
A lack of evidence *against* an idea that has no evidence *for* it is hardly a compelling reason to espouse it, or even justification for considering it.
But you are right on the philosophy and theology.
It always kind of bothered me that the highest degree in science is 'Doctor of Philosophy' when it should be 'Doctor of Science'.

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 Message 61 by GDR, posted 05-05-2006 1:33 PM GDR has replied

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 Message 74 by GDR, posted 05-05-2006 3:39 PM EZscience has replied

EZscience
Member (Idle past 5180 days)
Posts: 961
From: A wheatfield in Kansas
Joined: 04-14-2005


Message 77 of 148 (309441)
05-05-2006 3:44 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by GDR
05-05-2006 3:39 PM


Re: Accidents
So do I. I just view evolution as the designer

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by GDR, posted 05-05-2006 3:39 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
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