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Author Topic:   rat mothers
pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6023 days)
Posts: 1567
Joined: 06-10-2004


Message 91 of 292 (304675)
04-16-2006 10:15 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by macaroniandcheese
04-16-2006 9:09 PM


Re: Backpedaling, eh?
apparently the people on this board we are dealing with are non-religious moralists. i'd say even worse because there is no way to reason with them because what they have decided is in their own minds.
First, you attack people for being religious. Now, you attack people for being non-religious.
That doesn't really leave anyone for you to deal with...
...and I hope you weren't including me in your statement, since I as stated above, I am pro-choice. I am opposing your illogical arguments and inflammatory responses (some of it qualifying as hate-speech) because they do more to hurt the pro-choice movement than help it. You're sort of acting like a Kent Hovind for the pro-choice side. Really.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by macaroniandcheese, posted 04-16-2006 9:09 PM macaroniandcheese has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by tsig, posted 04-20-2006 8:32 AM pink sasquatch has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 92 of 292 (304691)
04-17-2006 6:35 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by macaroniandcheese
04-16-2006 9:44 AM


Re: Rsex
yes. and you want to tell me that i can't have sex until i'm married. and you think that if i do and i get pregnant i should be punished with it. a child as a form of punishment. that's a great way for him to grow up.
No, your not listening (reading).
You can have sex whenever you want. If you do, You can get pregnant, OMG. It's pretty simple.
Saw my mom yesterday, told her, hey mom, thanks for not getting an abortion. My younger sister was standing there, and she said, nope, that would have been me. My mother almost got an abortion on her pregnancy. It was such a great moment in life.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by macaroniandcheese, posted 04-16-2006 9:44 AM macaroniandcheese has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by nator, posted 04-17-2006 7:38 AM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 95 by kalimero, posted 04-17-2006 8:25 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 93 of 292 (304698)
04-17-2006 7:38 AM
Reply to: Message 92 by riVeRraT
04-17-2006 6:35 AM


Re: Rsex
quote:
Saw my mom yesterday, told her, hey mom, thanks for not getting an abortion.
I'll bet Hitler said the same thing to his mom, too.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by riVeRraT, posted 04-17-2006 6:35 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by riVeRraT, posted 04-17-2006 8:23 AM nator has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 94 of 292 (304707)
04-17-2006 8:23 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by nator
04-17-2006 7:38 AM


Re: Rsex
I'll bet Hitler said the same thing to his mom, too.
Before or after he cooked her? j/k
So all we have to do is come up with a way to see who is going to be like Hitler, and just abort those babies. Fair enough.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by nator, posted 04-17-2006 7:38 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by nator, posted 04-17-2006 11:08 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
kalimero
Member (Idle past 2445 days)
Posts: 251
From: Israel
Joined: 04-08-2006


Message 95 of 292 (304708)
04-17-2006 8:25 AM
Reply to: Message 92 by riVeRraT
04-17-2006 6:35 AM


Re: Rsex
Saw my mom yesterday, told her, hey mom, thanks for not getting an abortion.
That is not an argument, because there is no person that can thank his/her mother for having an abortion. Every person today has a mother that didnt have an abortion (when he/she was a fetus). Therfore, the only thing you are saying is that you are alive, and that is redundant. I bet if she had gotten an abortion you wouldnt be saying that. But I know of alot of people that wish that there mother would have gotten an abortion, and maybe waited for her to be ready for a baby or taken better care of other siblings.
edited for typing mistake
This message has been edited by kalimero, 04-17-2006 03:26 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by riVeRraT, posted 04-17-2006 6:35 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by riVeRraT, posted 04-17-2006 10:02 AM kalimero has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 96 of 292 (304722)
04-17-2006 10:02 AM
Reply to: Message 95 by kalimero
04-17-2006 8:25 AM


Re: Rsex
That is not an argument, because there is no person that can thank his/her mother for having an abortion.
Well isn't that just the whole point right there in a nutshell?
Every person today has a mother that didnt have an abortion (when he/she was a fetus).
All hail the reproduction process!!!
Therfore, the only thing you are saying is that you are alive, and that is redundant.
I only said it once.
If I said thanks, then I must be happy about it.
I bet if she had gotten an abortion you wouldnt be saying that.
I don't know, I tell you when I'm dead, if that's possible or not.
But I know of alot of people that wish that there mother would have gotten an abortion, and maybe waited for her to be ready for a baby or taken better care of other siblings.
Or maybe they should have wished that she didn't have sex, since that is the root cause of pregnacy. mmmm.
Do we fix the symptoms, or the problem, let's see.......

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by kalimero, posted 04-17-2006 8:25 AM kalimero has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by kalimero, posted 04-17-2006 11:38 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 97 of 292 (304732)
04-17-2006 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 94 by riVeRraT
04-17-2006 8:23 AM


Re: Rsex
quote:
So all we have to do is come up with a way to see who is going to be like Hitler, and just abort those babies. Fair enough.
That's the point, rat.
Most people like Hitler are made, not born.
Just like most people who are like Mother Theresa are made, not born.
It is, therefore, a crap argument to point to Mother Theresa and say that you are against abortion because look at how much good she has done.
It can be turned around and noted that if Hitler had been aborted, all the evil done by him would never have happened.
There is no way to tell who is going to be like Hitler, nor Mother Theresa, and there never will be.
And besides, it makes no sense to thank your mother for not aborting you. You wouldn't have been aware of anything while it was happening.
You wouldn't have had any consciousness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by riVeRraT, posted 04-17-2006 8:23 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by riVeRraT, posted 04-18-2006 4:18 PM nator has replied

  
kalimero
Member (Idle past 2445 days)
Posts: 251
From: Israel
Joined: 04-08-2006


Message 98 of 292 (304738)
04-17-2006 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by riVeRraT
04-17-2006 10:02 AM


Re: Rsex
Well isn't that just the whole point right there in a nutshell?
No it isnt because you have no situation to compare the situation for which you give graditude to. Thats why it isnt an argument.
All hail the reproduction process!!!
I was just pointing out the redundancy - you dont have to be , just be .
I only said it once.
If I said thanks, then I must be happy about it.
once too many, because its obvious. The fact that your happy about being born has nothing to do with the illegitimacy you proclaim this procedure. You have to equate the situation in which you are born and are happy, with the situation in which you are born and are not happy, and you cant do that. So you have to realise that there are people that there are people that would be better of not having any more babies dispite having sex. The fetus is irrelevant until it is conscience in the same way skin cells are irrelevant (they too can become people).
I don't know, I tell you when I'm dead, if that's possible or not.
That not a proper equation because if your mother would have had an abortion, its not that you would be dead, 'you' wouldnt even exist.
Or maybe they should have wished that she didn't have sex, since that is the root cause of pregnacy. mmmm.
Do we fix the symptoms, or the problem, let's see.......
Thats hardly a logical equation - the idea that sex is 'the root cause of pregnancy' doesnt make sex the problem, any more then the behavior of the mother after sex (pregnancy, birth ext.).
The question is for the well-being of the baby (which is not just a symptom once it is conscience), and the well-being of the mother, if the mother cant support a child, she obviosly shouldnt have unprotected sex, but if she does and gets pregnant (it happens) she can deside to abort the fetus before it is conscience - for its own well-being. The baby and the mother arent goint to live well if she has to take care of him.
So both links in the chain are important.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by riVeRraT, posted 04-17-2006 10:02 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by riVeRraT, posted 04-18-2006 4:32 PM kalimero has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 99 of 292 (305026)
04-18-2006 4:18 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by nator
04-17-2006 11:08 AM


Re: Rsex
If your mother came to you and said, you were almost an abortion, wouldn't that affect you?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by nator, posted 04-17-2006 11:08 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by nator, posted 04-18-2006 10:37 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 100 of 292 (305029)
04-18-2006 4:32 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by kalimero
04-17-2006 11:38 AM


Re: Rsex
Well isn't that just the whole point right there in a nutshell?
No it isnt because you have no situation to compare the situation for which you give graditude to. Thats why it isnt an argument.
Exactly, that's the point. And if there is no arguement, then leave it alone.
Once conception happens, and you end it by forceful means, then the person doesn't have a chance to say anything, that's the point. So you are responsible for ending that chance from ever happening.
[qs]So you have to realise that there are people that there are people that would be better of not having any more babies dispite having sex.[qs] Yes, having sex makes babies.
The fetus is irrelevant until it is conscience in the same way skin cells are irrelevant (they too can become people).
This is the biggest bunch of BS ever spoke in this forum.
There is no logical comparison going on there, and you should be the last one to talk about equating things after that statement.
That not a proper equation because if your mother would have had an abortion, its not that you would be dead, 'you' wouldnt even exist.
Oh, I existed alright.
As you can see, she didn't get an abortion, and here I am.
Thats hardly a logical equation
If your pipes were leaking in your house, would you prefer me to come over and put tape around the pipes, that would last a few days, and keep coming back and taping, and charging you, or would you prefer me to just fix the pipe, the root cuse of the problem.
Don't speak to me about logic, unless you are actually going to make sense. I am a realist.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by kalimero, posted 04-17-2006 11:38 AM kalimero has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by kalimero, posted 04-18-2006 5:21 PM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 106 by EZscience, posted 04-18-2006 9:54 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 101 of 292 (305030)
04-18-2006 4:36 PM


the Truth
I would really respect all of those who are for abortion much more if they would just admit that life begins at inception, and intercourse can cause life to begin, and the real reason they want abortions is so that they don't have suffer for their mistakes.
It's pretty simple. I just get sick of all the justifications people are coming up with. Who are you guys kidding?

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by jar, posted 04-18-2006 4:52 PM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 104 by NosyNed, posted 04-18-2006 5:37 PM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 105 by kalimero, posted 04-18-2006 5:38 PM riVeRraT has not replied
 Message 108 by nator, posted 04-18-2006 10:49 PM riVeRraT has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 395 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 102 of 292 (305035)
04-18-2006 4:52 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by riVeRraT
04-18-2006 4:36 PM


Re: the Truth
I would really respect all of those who are for removing the option of abortion much more if they would just step to the plate and say that they will adopt every unwanted child, supported sex education beginning at age ten or so, supported free availablity of preventive measures like condoms, birth control devices, morning after pill and RU-486.
It's pretty simple. I just get sick of all the justifications for restricting abortions people are coming up with. Who are you guys kidding?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by riVeRraT, posted 04-18-2006 4:36 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by riVeRraT, posted 04-19-2006 8:45 AM jar has not replied

  
kalimero
Member (Idle past 2445 days)
Posts: 251
From: Israel
Joined: 04-08-2006


Message 103 of 292 (305038)
04-18-2006 5:21 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by riVeRraT
04-18-2006 4:32 PM


Re: Rsex
1.
Once conception happens, and you end it by forceful means, then the person doesn't have a chance to say anything, that's the point. So you are responsible for ending that chance from ever happening.
There is no person until conscience, unless you have a different definition for 'person'. From what point in the reproduction of a baby (from conception {my favorite} to birth) would you consider the zygote (the first cell that forms from the combining of the two nulcii of the sperm and oocyte) to be a person?
Maybe at conception GOD blows life into the blastosist and gives it a soul? (I'm being cynical)
2.
Yes, having sex makes babies.
I meant to say that there are people that would like not to have a baby, dispite continuing to have sex, also for the interest of the baby (a mother that doesnt want him). I dont think that this would cause women to casualy have sex and then just abort when thay feel like it, because abortion is (1) a serious medical procedure (2) it hurts (3) its expencive. There is nothing wrong with not having sex, just that when an option exists, where everyone wins, I dont see why we should see it as 'symptomatic', when it actualy solves the problem.
3.
This is the biggest bunch of BS ever spoke in this forum.
There is no logical comparison going on there, and you should be the last one to talk about equating things after that statement.
Skin cells have the same genetic potential as a blastosist (a very early fetus), but alot of the genes (those not needed in skin cells) are "turned off", so a skin cell can become a person (if you take the genetic matirial and implant it in an empty oocyte) and that is the equation between the potential of a fetus to become a person and the potential of a skin cell to become a person.
4.
Oh, I existed alright.
As you can see, she didn't get an abortion, and here I am.
I didnt say that you didnt exist, I said: if your mother would have had an abortion, its not that you would be dead, 'you' wouldnt even exist.
Its a hypothetical situation.
5.
If your pipes were leaking in your house, would you prefer me to come over and put tape around the pipes, that would last a few days, and keep coming back and taping, and charging you, or would you prefer me to just fix the pipe, the root cuse of the problem.
I have already replied to that:
Thats hardly a logical equation - the idea that sex is 'the root cause of pregnancy' doesnt make sex the problem, any more then the behavior of the mother after sex (pregnancy, birth ext.).
The question is for the well-being of the baby (which is not just a symptom once it is conscience), and the well-being of the mother, if the mother cant support a child, she obviosly shouldnt have unprotected sex, but if she does and gets pregnant (it happens) she can deside to abort the fetus before it is conscience - for its own well-being. The baby and the mother arent goint to live well if she has to take care of him.
So both links in the chain are important.
6.
Don't speak to me about logic, unless you are actually going to make sense. I am a realist.
Good for you, but so far all you have given me is emotionaly charged rhetoric.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by riVeRraT, posted 04-18-2006 4:32 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by riVeRraT, posted 04-19-2006 8:57 AM kalimero has replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 104 of 292 (305041)
04-18-2006 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by riVeRraT
04-18-2006 4:36 PM


Life beginning.
if they would just admit that life begins at inception
I don't care when "life" begins; I care when a human life begins. A human is not a bag of fluids and tissues. A human is only "there" when there is a conscious, sentient, individual present.
When there isn't one present (brain dead after an accident for example) there is no "person" to kill.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by riVeRraT, posted 04-18-2006 4:36 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
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kalimero
Member (Idle past 2445 days)
Posts: 251
From: Israel
Joined: 04-08-2006


Message 105 of 292 (305042)
04-18-2006 5:38 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by riVeRraT
04-18-2006 4:36 PM


Re: the Truth (tentatively)
I would really respect all of those who are for abortion much more if they would just admit that life begins at inception
At what point exactly? Can you be more precise? This also depends on your definition of life. You consider a blastosist alive but you dont consider stem cells (fibroblasts {partialy}, bone marrow cells exc.)?
and intercourse can cause life to begin
Why would I need to 'admit' that?
and the real reason they want abortions is so that they don't have suffer for their mistakes.
More emotionaly charged rhetoric. Do you think that we dont care about our babies? If anything, future babies are better off having the procedure, because that means that a geater number of the babies that will be born, will be born to a mother that wants them, and so will suffer less.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by riVeRraT, posted 04-18-2006 4:36 PM riVeRraT has not replied

  
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