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Author Topic:   Is God Omnipresent?
iano
Member (Idle past 21 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 76 of 86 (296661)
03-19-2006 7:58 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by Phat
03-13-2006 7:41 PM


Re: what does OmniPresent mean
phat writes:

IMHO, this is what the Bible means when it urges us to be In Christ. As humans, there are many moments of any given day that we are not In Christ. He is (with) us, however...IMB. Whenever *evil* exists, it is because the perpetrators of the evil are In *evil* at that moment....they are choosing to allow the virus to consume them.

WADR Phat, I don't reckon you'll find the Bible urges us to any such thing. Gods mechanism for salvation - for want of a better phrase - is to take us out of Adam (our as-born condition) and to put us into Christ (hence born again). A Christian is always in Christ.

The urging takes the tack of "why act like someone who is not in Christ, act like what you are - in Christ"

Romans 6:1 "What shall we say then, shall we (Christians) sin so that grace may abound? God forbid. Don't you know...."

The exhortations in the epistles appeal to a person who is in a particular positon. It tells them their position and asks them to act like a person in that position. "You once were an enemy of the United States. But now you have been made a citizen of the United States. It is inconsistant that you act like a person who is an ememy of the United States." That is the argument as applied

You can be a good citizen or a bad citizen but it affects your citizenship not one jot. Once in Christ, always in Christ. Romans 8, that glorious statement of the final assurance of salvation that a Christian has, starts out with the verse:

"Therefore (as a result of the argument I have employed up to now), there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ"

Read it again. It is mind boggling. But God foreknew. And he called, an effectual call. And when we heard that call and responded to it he justfied us and also glorified us. Its all done.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Phat, posted 03-13-2006 7:41 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
Mr. Ex Nihilo
Member (Idle past 4629 days)
Posts: 708
Joined: 04-12-2005


Message 77 of 86 (296678)
03-19-2006 10:37 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by Phat
03-13-2006 7:34 PM


Re: what does OmniPresent mean
Phat writes:

I was always taught that the "other spirits" could not be aware of what was happening in all places at once. They could somehow communicate with each other through conduits such as gossip and the media...(Im sticking with my original premise that humans are a necessary conduit of evil)

I tend to agree. In fact, I think that demonic agencies cannot exist without some type of agency that is still connected to God.

Phat writes:

Its not that the demons use us. We use them. God observes all of it---every bit of our behavior---and I believe that He wants us to realize that He is there and that He cares about our behavior.

I actually think it's the opposite -- they use us to stay alive.

So, for example, it could be saids that man is the "dust of the earth" upon which the adversary feasts...

Genesis 3:19 writes:

…for DUST you are, and unto DUST shall you return.

It seems as though when God told the serpent that he would eat dust, he seems to be telling him that he would eat humanity. And this is fairly well what Peter tells us in his epistle:

I Peter 5:8 writes:

Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walks about, seeking whom he may devour.

I also find it interesting, in contrast to the adversary consuming us, that Christ offers us his body and blood to consume in the Lord's Supper. :)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Phat, posted 03-13-2006 7:34 PM Phat has not yet responded

    
Hawkins
Member (Idle past 655 days)
Posts: 150
From: Hong Kong
Joined: 08-25-2005


Message 78 of 86 (296975)
03-20-2006 11:51 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by Phat
03-13-2006 7:41 PM


Re: what does OmniPresent mean
"Can God sin?"

An answer to this question bears no meaning at all, as the paradox lies within the question itself, along with other similar paradoxical questions. Actually those questions can finally be resolved into *ONE* single paradoxical question, disregarding how decorative those questions are, which is,

"Can God do something He cant?"

A "yes" to this question leads to a logical error, while a "no" casts doubt on God's omnipotence.

Yet those questions actually have *absolutely nothing* to do AT ALL with God's omni-nature, so to speak. So why bother with answering such a question?

This message has been edited by Hawkins, 03-20-2006 10:52 PM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Phat, posted 03-13-2006 7:41 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by Phat, posted 03-21-2006 10:02 AM Hawkins has responded
 Message 80 by ReverendDG, posted 03-21-2006 2:45 PM Hawkins has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 12180
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 79 of 86 (297032)
03-21-2006 10:02 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by Hawkins
03-20-2006 11:51 PM


Re: what does OmniPresent mean
Hawkins writes:

Yet those questions actually have *absolutely nothing* to do AT ALL with God's omni-nature, so to speak. So why bother with answering such a question?

You tell me.

I am no authority on Gods nature, except as such that I interpret the Bible.

Perhaps a philosophical question would be this:
Only God knows if He is Omnipreasent, right?
What implications do the truth or fallacy of this statement mean for humanity today?


Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart, and through all human hearts. This line shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years. Even within hearts overwhelmed by evil, one small bridgehead of good is retained; and even in the best of all hearts, there remains a small corner of evil. --Alexander Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Hawkins, posted 03-20-2006 11:51 PM Hawkins has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by robinrohan, posted 03-21-2006 2:55 PM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 82 by Hawkins, posted 03-21-2006 7:55 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 2191 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 80 of 86 (297089)
03-21-2006 2:45 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by Hawkins
03-20-2006 11:51 PM


Re: what does OmniPresent mean
Yet those questions actually have *absolutely nothing* to do AT ALL with God's omni-nature, so to speak. So why bother with answering such a question?

really? i thought they had everything to do with his nature, can you explain why they do not?

So why bother with answering such a question?

because its an interesting topic and one of the main things that seems to change as time goes on, if you read genesis god is not omni anything
This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Hawkins, posted 03-20-2006 11:51 PM Hawkins has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by Hawkins, posted 03-21-2006 7:56 PM ReverendDG has not yet responded

    
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 81 of 86 (297091)
03-21-2006 2:55 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by Phat
03-21-2006 10:02 AM


Re: what does OmniPresent mean
Perhaps a philosophical question would be this:
Only God knows if He is Omnipreasent, right?
What implications do the truth or fallacy of this statement mean for humanity today?

If God is not omnipresent, maybe one can hide from Him--keep a low profile, as it were.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Phat, posted 03-21-2006 10:02 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
Hawkins
Member (Idle past 655 days)
Posts: 150
From: Hong Kong
Joined: 08-25-2005


Message 82 of 86 (297134)
03-21-2006 7:55 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by Phat
03-21-2006 10:02 AM


Re: what does OmniPresent mean
"You tell me."

No I cant't, I am not in any position to judge God. I just pointed out that there's a paradox in the questions.

By and large, I have not much doubt about His omnipotence, omnipresence and omnisicence.

This message has been edited by Hawkins, 03-21-2006 08:10 PM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Phat, posted 03-21-2006 10:02 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
Hawkins
Member (Idle past 655 days)
Posts: 150
From: Hong Kong
Joined: 08-25-2005


Message 83 of 86 (297135)
03-21-2006 7:56 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by ReverendDG
03-21-2006 2:45 PM


Re: what does OmniPresent mean
"really? i thought they had everything to do with his nature, can you explain why they do not?"

Already explained, by answering a paradoxical question, your going no where in figuring out anything. As a pattern, you already know the answer to those questions without even knowing the exact question.

How?

A "yes" to this question leads to a logical error, while a "no" casts doubt on God's omnipotence.

Of course, it's up to you to judge where your time shall spend.

This message has been edited by Hawkins, 03-21-2006 08:08 PM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by ReverendDG, posted 03-21-2006 2:45 PM ReverendDG has not yet responded

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 0 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 84 of 86 (297748)
03-24-2006 7:11 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by R. Cuaresma
03-10-2006 6:07 AM


Jumped in late, but here's my 2 cents.

If God is all loving, and good, then why does evil even exist at all?

God Himself sends evil into the world, so how can He not be present when evil is around?

To me, what we percieve as evil is only for one purpose. To help us find God. Evil may in fact be good, if it is for that purpose. Remeber, His ways are not our ways.

I say God is there all the time, evil, no evil. Love Him in the good times and the bad. to rejoice in our tribulations, because God is showing us something.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by R. Cuaresma, posted 03-10-2006 6:07 AM R. Cuaresma has not yet responded

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 0 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 85 of 86 (297749)
03-24-2006 7:12 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Phat
03-10-2006 8:35 PM


Re: Evil needs a carrier
God was available but was unwanted by these killers.

There in lies what I believe to be our only true free-will. To choose God or not.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Phat, posted 03-10-2006 8:35 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
OmegaLogos
Inactive Member


Message 86 of 86 (304724)
04-17-2006 10:10 AM


RE: Is "GOD" OmniPresent? Another Working Definition Of God(because threads closed LOL)

To me, "THE" God (not just yhwh of the abrahamic denomiantions) must comply

with the following states of being for me to 1. accept that entity as a "GOD"

& 2. to even begin considering whether that "GOD" is worthy of my "Worship"

however that is defined by me &/or my "GOD".

OK here are my postulations.
A: 1st and foremost "GOD" must exhibit/display 100% Perfection

Now to qualify how I define Perfection

A: OmniPresence ie 100% everywhere & everything simultaneously . why? because

to be less than 100% implies lack and this is a Quality that i have found

few Theists to agree with that "GOD" embodies this state.

Now what are the basic theological implications of OmniPresence?

I see it thus...

A: OmniPresence implies both Omniscience (if "GOD" is everywhere and every

thing simultaneously then "GOD" "knows itself implicitly" at that

scale/level) & OmniPotence (if "GOD" is everywhere,everything & knows it then

that "GOD" has complete control of its entire self therefore is ALL

powerfull)

What implications does this hold for me if it has basis in fact beyond

reasonable doubt (qualified as repeatable verifiable empirical evidence and

peer reviewed logical arguments that stand up to repeated test and scrutiny).

Well here is my reasoning...

IF "GOD" "IS!" as i have qualified as above, then I am a part of that "GOD"!
WOW what a Revelation! Then why do i see flaws,imperfection,negetive,evil &

ineffecient realities around me? well hmmm let me Rationalize and base it on

my very 1st premise (That "GOD" must be Perfect) and i summize thus...Im in a

State of Perfect Illusion (ie im fooling myself by my own perception of lack

as I am not the entirety of "GOD" instead Im just a pixel in the fractal

state of that "GOD" and until i can percieve from a entire universal level at

a minimum that illusion will remain. Does this mean "GOD" doesn't exist.Not

to me it doesn't.Also regardless of whether im fooling myself or not I

believe that "GOD" can exhibit perfect states of evil (just as good) or

negetivity (just as positively or balance even) but i qualify that i find it

challenging to resolve these states agreeably within my consciousness when

experienced.

Have I missed anything??


Become totally disillusioned & see everything for real.
  
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