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Author Topic:   What is the soul?
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 31 of 165 (305729)
04-21-2006 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by New Cat's Eye
04-21-2006 4:06 PM


Re: "Soul" unnecessary
Uhh, lets just say "soul".
thats what the thread is about
The question was, what is the soul?
My answer: it's another word for "consciousness."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by New Cat's Eye, posted 04-21-2006 4:06 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
kjsimons
Member
Posts: 821
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003
Member Rating: 6.7


Message 32 of 165 (305730)
04-21-2006 4:16 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by New Cat's Eye
04-21-2006 4:06 PM


Re: "Soul" unnecessary
Uhh, lets just say "soul".
thats what the thread is about...
Well that right there is the problem, nobody can agree what a soul is or even if it exists. It's as pointless as trying to figure out how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. With there being no verifiable data about angels (or souls), no meaningful answers can be found.

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 Message 30 by New Cat's Eye, posted 04-21-2006 4:06 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 33 of 165 (305731)
04-21-2006 4:18 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by robinrohan
04-21-2006 3:42 PM


"Soul" is the best word I think
To me it does. Ok, let's just say "consciousness."
OK, I see that "mind" can be the equivalent, but "soul" doesn't have the ambiguities that "mind" does. Or maybe you just aren't used to using the term so it doesn't have a clear meaning to you. I think it's the least ambiguous of all the possibilities. "Soul" sounds more substantial than "consciousness" too, like we're really talking about a personality.
When we say "soul includes mind, emotion and will" we should probably say "intellect" instead of "mind." That would probably be clearer.
The older word was "the understanding" -- medieval I suppose. I think emotion and will had different terms too but I don't remember for sure.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by robinrohan, posted 04-21-2006 3:42 PM robinrohan has replied

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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 34 of 165 (305732)
04-21-2006 4:28 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Faith
04-21-2006 4:18 PM


Re: "Soul" is the best word I think
OK, I see that "mind" can be the equivalent, but "soul" doesn't have the ambiguities that "mind" does. Or maybe you just aren't used to using the term so it doesn't have a clear meaning to you. I think it's the least ambiguous of all the possibilities. "Soul" sounds more substantial than "consciousness" too, like we're really talking about a personality
Ok, I see your point.
Let me explain what prompted this idea of mine that "soul" is an unnecessary term. In traditional metaphysics, one might be a materialist, a dualist, or an idealist.
Now, when an idealist says that only the mind is real, he might as well say, only the spirit is real, or only the soul is real. It all means the same thing. It's all being opposed to matter.
We have mind and matter. That's all there is.

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 Message 33 by Faith, posted 04-21-2006 4:18 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by New Cat's Eye, posted 04-21-2006 4:47 PM robinrohan has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 35 of 165 (305735)
04-21-2006 4:39 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Bashier Ahmed
04-21-2006 2:24 PM


Re: Thanks! Evidence of the Soul
Well, neither of those are evidence of a soul. At best they might be unexplained events.
But that also misses the second question I asked. If we can test and measure 'soul' then is it not just another material object and not spiritual?
This message has been edited by jar, 04-21-2006 03:46 PM

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 165 (305736)
04-21-2006 4:41 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by kjsimons
04-21-2006 4:16 PM


Re: "Soul" unnecessary
nobody can agree what a soul is or even if it exists
Come on now...nobody?
A lot of us agree that it exists and we can also agree on what it is, with a simple definition. We have our own ideas on what it encompasses when we start getting more specific with the definitions but to say that nobody can agree what is a soul is not true.
With there being no verifiable data about angels (or souls), no meaningful answers can be found.
WRT science I agree that no meaningful answers can be found but from a spiritual point of view I think that a lot of meaning can come from a discussion. You, personally, might consider those answers to lack meaning but that's just your prerogative, as it is mine that they do.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by kjsimons, posted 04-21-2006 4:16 PM kjsimons has replied

Replies to this message:
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 37 of 165 (305737)
04-21-2006 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by robinrohan
04-21-2006 4:28 PM


Re: "Soul" is the best word I think
We have mind and matter. That's all there is.
What a bold assertion to claim knowledge of the non-existance of something. You can't know that something doesn't exist.
I agree that we have mind and matter but I think we have a soul too. IMHO, when we die the mind and matter die but the soul moves on, its an immaterial component of our existance that is connected to the matter via the mind.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by robinrohan, posted 04-21-2006 4:28 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by robinrohan, posted 04-21-2006 4:57 PM New Cat's Eye has replied
 Message 81 by robinrohan, posted 04-25-2006 9:25 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 38 of 165 (305740)
04-21-2006 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by New Cat's Eye
04-21-2006 4:47 PM


Re: "Soul" is the best word I think
What a bold assertion to claim knowledge of the non-existance of something. You can't know that something doesn't exist.
I was speaking in terms of traditional metaphysics. Very bold of me, I know.
It's like saying, there are two ways we can logically think: induction and deduction.
How dare I say such a thing?
Or it's like saying, That which contradicts itself cannot be.
How dare I say such a thing?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by New Cat's Eye, posted 04-21-2006 4:47 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by New Cat's Eye, posted 04-21-2006 5:02 PM robinrohan has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 39 of 165 (305741)
04-21-2006 5:02 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by robinrohan
04-21-2006 4:57 PM


Re: "Soul" is the best word I think
the part I found bold was "That's all there is."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by robinrohan, posted 04-21-2006 4:57 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by robinrohan, posted 04-21-2006 5:05 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 40 of 165 (305744)
04-21-2006 5:05 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by New Cat's Eye
04-21-2006 5:02 PM


Re: "Soul" is the best word I think
the part I found bold was "That's all there is."
Logically, that is all there is.
But who cares about logic?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by New Cat's Eye, posted 04-21-2006 5:02 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by New Cat's Eye, posted 04-21-2006 5:11 PM robinrohan has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 41 of 165 (305746)
04-21-2006 5:11 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by robinrohan
04-21-2006 5:05 PM


Re: "Soul" is the best word I think
robinrohan writes:
Logically, that is all there is.
OMG, not this crap again.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by robinrohan, posted 04-21-2006 5:05 PM robinrohan has replied

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 Message 42 by robinrohan, posted 04-21-2006 5:30 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied
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 Message 65 by robinrohan, posted 04-24-2006 8:23 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 42 of 165 (305749)
04-21-2006 5:30 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by New Cat's Eye
04-21-2006 5:11 PM


Re: "Soul" is the best word I think
OMG, not this crap again.
That's the horrible thing about logic. It does tend to limit possibilities.
That's not very romantic, is it?

"A man with a good car doesn't have to be justified"---Flannery O'Connor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by New Cat's Eye, posted 04-21-2006 5:11 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 43 of 165 (305750)
04-21-2006 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by New Cat's Eye
04-21-2006 5:11 PM


Re: "Soul" is the best word I think
I agree with you that Robin's idea of logic is somewhat lacking. And he doesn't know much (if anything) about the philosphy of mind, either.
However the best evidence we have tends to favour materialism, and causes some serious problems for Cartesian dualism. One of the most telling results is the effect of the so-called "split brain" operation - severing the corpus callosum. This breaks most of the communication between the two hemispheres of the brain producing what appears to be two mostly-independant consciousnesses. If the mind is an immaterial entity how could it be divided by severing part of the brain ?a

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by New Cat's Eye, posted 04-21-2006 5:11 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

Replies to this message:
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smak_84
Inactive Member


Message 44 of 165 (305751)
04-21-2006 5:41 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by robinrohan
04-21-2006 5:30 PM


Re: "Soul" is the best word I think
How about I propose this for the soul.
For starters the soul is the philosophical form of the human being. The soul is an immaterial thing which is the first and most basic organizing principle within each living being (in this case a human). Further the philisophical form is the determing element which enters into the basic physical makeup of all physical things. It is that principle by which you live, move, and think (rationally). The soul is essentially (as in it is part of what makes a human a human) united to the body. Further, the occurance called death is the separation of the soul from the body (observe that if we do not enbalm the body it will return to the base elements after it rots). So in a sense it is the "breath of life." It is that which makes us human beings alive.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by robinrohan, posted 04-21-2006 5:30 PM robinrohan has not replied

Replies to this message:
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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 45 of 165 (305752)
04-21-2006 5:41 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by PaulK
04-21-2006 5:37 PM


Re: "Soul" is the best word I think
I agree with you that Robin's idea of logic is somewhat lacking. And he doesn't know much (if anything) about the philosphy of mind, either.
That's what happens when one is close-minded.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by PaulK, posted 04-21-2006 5:37 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by PaulK, posted 04-21-2006 5:50 PM robinrohan has replied
 Message 47 by smak_84, posted 04-21-2006 6:00 PM robinrohan has not replied

  
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