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Author Topic:   IC & the Cambrian Explosion for Ahmad...cont..
mark24
Member (Idle past 5194 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 61 of 199 (29314)
01-16-2003 7:57 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by peter borger
01-16-2003 7:31 PM


quote:
Originally posted by peter borger:
Dear mark,
If you can demonstrate
1) TFs between Kingdoms,
2) TFs between Phyla,
3) TFs between Classes,
4) TFs between Orders,
5) TFs between Families,
6) TFs between Genera,
7) TFs between Species
it would be very good for evolutionism.
best wishes,
Peter

Wouldn't it just! But let's stick to what we know. Do you agree that transitionals that meet the prediction of the ToE have been found?
Mark
------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by peter borger, posted 01-16-2003 7:31 PM peter borger has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by peter borger, posted 01-16-2003 8:15 PM mark24 has replied

  
peter borger
Member (Idle past 7664 days)
Posts: 965
From: australia
Joined: 07-05-2002


Message 62 of 199 (29316)
01-16-2003 8:15 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by mark24
01-16-2003 7:57 PM


Dear mark,
Never seen one that could qualify as a TF
best wishes,

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by mark24, posted 01-16-2003 7:57 PM mark24 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by edge, posted 01-16-2003 9:07 PM peter borger has replied
 Message 65 by mark24, posted 01-17-2003 4:42 AM peter borger has replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1705 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 63 of 199 (29321)
01-16-2003 9:07 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by peter borger
01-16-2003 8:15 PM


quote:
Originally posted by peter borger:
Dear mark,
Never seen one that could qualify as a TF
best wishes,

Oh, then perhaps you could give us a definition of 'transitional fossil' that would satisfy you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by peter borger, posted 01-16-2003 8:15 PM peter borger has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by peter borger, posted 01-16-2003 10:56 PM edge has replied

  
peter borger
Member (Idle past 7664 days)
Posts: 965
From: australia
Joined: 07-05-2002


Message 64 of 199 (29322)
01-16-2003 10:56 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by edge
01-16-2003 9:07 PM


Dear Edge:
A transitionform is a form of transition that forms a transition between forms.
Best wishes,
Peter

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by edge, posted 01-16-2003 9:07 PM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by edge, posted 01-17-2003 10:05 AM peter borger has not replied

  
mark24
Member (Idle past 5194 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 65 of 199 (29332)
01-17-2003 4:42 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by peter borger
01-16-2003 8:15 PM


quote:
Originally posted by peter borger:
Dear mark,
Never seen one that could qualify as a TF
best wishes,

Then what is wrong with definition: a transitional is a form that possesses characters, or character states that are part way between two separate taxa.? (I added a bit),
Do you agree the ToE predicts transitional forms as described? Please be specific in your objection.
Mark
------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by peter borger, posted 01-16-2003 8:15 PM peter borger has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by peter borger, posted 01-17-2003 6:37 AM mark24 has replied

  
peter borger
Member (Idle past 7664 days)
Posts: 965
From: australia
Joined: 07-05-2002


Message 66 of 199 (29341)
01-17-2003 6:37 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by mark24
01-17-2003 4:42 AM


Dear Mark,
What paradigm are we going to subject it to? Is there pure objectivity involved? Anyway, I will have an objective look.
So, show me the money,
Best wishes,
Peter

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by mark24, posted 01-17-2003 4:42 AM mark24 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by mark24, posted 01-17-2003 7:11 AM peter borger has replied

  
mark24
Member (Idle past 5194 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 67 of 199 (29352)
01-17-2003 7:11 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by peter borger
01-17-2003 6:37 AM


quote:
Originally posted by peter borger:
Dear Mark,
What paradigm are we going to subject it to?

We've been over this, the ToE predicts transitional forms, so any definition of such must be in the context of the current ToE. No parodies, please, they will be strawmen.
Mark
------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by peter borger, posted 01-17-2003 6:37 AM peter borger has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by peter borger, posted 01-17-2003 7:42 AM mark24 has replied

  
peter borger
Member (Idle past 7664 days)
Posts: 965
From: australia
Joined: 07-05-2002


Message 68 of 199 (29355)
01-17-2003 7:42 AM
Reply to: Message 67 by mark24
01-17-2003 7:11 AM


Mark, as I said, I will have an objective look,
Peter

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by mark24, posted 01-17-2003 7:11 AM mark24 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by mark24, posted 01-29-2003 7:06 PM peter borger has replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1705 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 69 of 199 (29376)
01-17-2003 10:05 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by peter borger
01-16-2003 10:56 PM


quote:
Originally posted by peter borger:
Dear Edge:
A transitionform is a form of transition that forms a transition between forms.
Best wishes,
Peter

Well, at least you attempted. However, it does leave the door open wide enough to fly an archeopteryx through...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by peter borger, posted 01-16-2003 10:56 PM peter borger has not replied

  
mark24
Member (Idle past 5194 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 70 of 199 (30605)
01-29-2003 7:06 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by peter borger
01-17-2003 7:42 AM


Peter,
quote:
Mark, as I said, I will have an objective look,
Well, any joy?
Mark
------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by peter borger, posted 01-17-2003 7:42 AM peter borger has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by peter borger, posted 01-29-2003 9:02 PM mark24 has not replied

  
peter borger
Member (Idle past 7664 days)
Posts: 965
From: australia
Joined: 07-05-2002


Message 71 of 199 (30610)
01-29-2003 9:02 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by mark24
01-29-2003 7:06 PM


Yeah, I went over to the Autralian Museum in Sydney to have a look at the chinese dinosaurs exhibition (the real thing, not the replica's, including the alleged birdlike transition forms). It was a lot of fun. More about this later.
best wishes,
peter

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by mark24, posted 01-29-2003 7:06 PM mark24 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by judge, posted 01-29-2003 11:21 PM peter borger has replied

  
judge
Member (Idle past 6443 days)
Posts: 216
From: australia
Joined: 11-11-2002


Message 72 of 199 (30622)
01-29-2003 11:21 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by peter borger
01-29-2003 9:02 PM


Yeah..I checked it out too!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by peter borger, posted 01-29-2003 9:02 PM peter borger has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by peter borger, posted 01-30-2003 12:16 AM judge has not replied

  
peter borger
Member (Idle past 7664 days)
Posts: 965
From: australia
Joined: 07-05-2002


Message 73 of 199 (30631)
01-30-2003 12:16 AM
Reply to: Message 72 by judge
01-29-2003 11:21 PM


Hi Judge,
Did you notice that two (out of 5) of them don't even have feathers?
Best wishes,
Peter

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by judge, posted 01-29-2003 11:21 PM judge has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by edge, posted 01-30-2003 12:19 AM peter borger has replied
 Message 75 by Andya Primanda, posted 01-30-2003 3:29 AM peter borger has not replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1705 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 74 of 199 (30632)
01-30-2003 12:19 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by peter borger
01-30-2003 12:16 AM


quote:
Hi Judge,
Did you notice that two (out of 5) of them don't even have feathers?
Best wishes,
Peter
You mean they weren't 'fully developed' birds?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by peter borger, posted 01-30-2003 12:16 AM peter borger has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by peter borger, posted 01-30-2003 7:07 AM edge has not replied

  
Andya Primanda
Inactive Member


Message 75 of 199 (30654)
01-30-2003 3:29 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by peter borger
01-30-2003 12:16 AM


What about the four-winged Microraptor gui? Maybe you can use it as an example of a 'wider' genome in the past?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by peter borger, posted 01-30-2003 12:16 AM peter borger has not replied

  
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