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Author Topic:   Does The Flood Add up?
CACTUSJACKmankin
Member (Idle past 6273 days)
Posts: 48
Joined: 04-22-2006


Message 61 of 298 (307495)
04-28-2006 4:50 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by inkorrekt
04-28-2006 10:58 AM


Re: Evidence for Noah's ark
"You can deny that the flood never occured. There are ancient civilizations around the world which were destroyed. They have historical literatures which do not even have any references to the Bible. So, either these records are wrong or you are wrong. Both cannot be true. Good try."
Almost all civilizations lived on a floodplain or the coast of some body of water. So, each of these civilizations recording a major aquatic disaster is not surprising.
Could you at least address my scientific criticisms. Two pieces of physical evidence. Why are they not there? No flood layer and no bottlenecking in the genes.
Those are just the physical evidences, there is so much wrong with this story. Genetic problems from inbreeding, fitting two of every species on a boat (there are an estimated 10 million species on the planet), feeding the animals, exposing animals from all different climates to the same temperature and humidity, reseeding the earth (trees take decades to reach adult size, what about the arborial animals?), redistribution of species (if Noah misplaced any they'd have died out), and Aquatic species can only survive in a specific range of salinities, the rain would have diluted the oceans(putting marine species in serious danger) and when the ocean waters hit the lakes it would have killed the freshwater species.

This message is a reply to:
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complexPHILOSOPHY
Inactive Member


Message 62 of 298 (307539)
04-28-2006 6:45 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by inkorrekt
04-27-2006 8:28 PM


Re: Evidence for Noah's ark
quote:
If it had been covered by ice for many centuries, then where is microbial disintegration?
Do you know what microbial disintegration is?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by inkorrekt, posted 04-27-2006 8:28 PM inkorrekt has not replied

anglagard
Member (Idle past 836 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 63 of 298 (307670)
04-29-2006 5:13 AM


Egyptian Pyramids?
According to Bishop Ussher, who is evidently considered the final authority on all Biblical matters concerning timescales by all young Earth creationists, the great flood occured in 2348 BC.
Let's forget all counter evidence from physics, geology, biology, linguistics, and anthropology against a universal flood.
Let's talk about history, namely the history of Egypt.
According to modern, less biased estimates of the age of various pyramids, the Great Pyramid of Khufu would have been made during the reign of Khufu, some 200 years before any flood. subsequent to Khufu, there clearly exists pyramids by the next pharaohs Chephren and then Mycerenius, all of these pyramids were built prior to the flood. There are several clear precedents to these pyramids such as the step pyramid of Saqqara and the weird one they tried to make too steep.
Although creationists will obviously attempt to shift the dates of such massive undertakings it would be difficult to explain how this matches the Genesis account of the flood. If the pyramids are older than the flood, where is the water damage? If younger, where are the massive amouts of labor needed for construction? After all, it would take more than a few women quite some time to pop out all those Egyptians.
Where are the written accounts? I think a society that could put up such edifices would have noticed a universal flood. Why is there no lack of continuity in this civilization (or any other at the time?)
Of course it could have been done by magic, by the god that created a world that implies a reward for the curious but then intentionally decieves the curious and rewards the unquestioning.
Or maybe the literal interpretation of the Bible is wrong, it should be treated as a parable (who implied that?)
This message has been edited by anglagard, 04-29-2006 05:39 AM

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SuperNintendo Chalmers
Member (Idle past 5833 days)
Posts: 772
From: Bartlett, IL, USA
Joined: 12-27-2005


Message 64 of 298 (307795)
04-29-2006 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by lfen
04-28-2006 3:19 PM


Re: Evidence for Noah's ark
Religious nonsense is part of the very fabric of civilized consciousness. Witness the activities we see in the US and around the world. This religious consciousness actively resists being supplanted by rational thought.
I just want to understand this better.
Good point and I think an interesting subject. Maybe I'll start a new thread if I can think of a good way to frame it.

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inkorrekt
Member (Idle past 6081 days)
Posts: 382
From: Westminster,CO, USA
Joined: 02-04-2006


Message 65 of 298 (307997)
04-30-2006 5:18 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by CACTUSJACKmankin
04-26-2006 9:39 PM


Re: Evidence for Noah's ark
There is a natural phenomenon of the brain called pareidollia, which causes familiar shapes to be formed out of randomness. This effect causes animals to be seen in clouds and the "face" on mars.
I met a man who claimed that many years ago, a 2 mile radius space ship landed and sucked him inside. The aliens gave him a physical exam and took away a part of his body. They also told him that they would return. I asked him if he ever watched Startrek. He said that he watches it all the time.
I have also seen pictures of Mars in many published books. There are some structures similar to pyramids. I do not know if these are real or artifacts. If they are real, who made them? OR how did they come into existence. I do not have the answers. I am still skeptical about these pictures. Unless I have solid evidences, I am still skeptical.
You cannot compare Noah's ark with such information which are yet to be verified. Noah's ark will one day be verified and authenticated. Till then, we cannot prejudge anything.
Yes, it seems you are suffering from another disorder in which you will not believe anything even if solid evidence is presented to you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by CACTUSJACKmankin, posted 04-26-2006 9:39 PM CACTUSJACKmankin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by CK, posted 04-30-2006 5:20 PM inkorrekt has not replied
 Message 67 by lfen, posted 04-30-2006 6:16 PM inkorrekt has replied
 Message 70 by ReverendDG, posted 04-30-2006 8:10 PM inkorrekt has not replied
 Message 71 by Coragyps, posted 04-30-2006 8:43 PM inkorrekt has not replied
 Message 73 by CACTUSJACKmankin, posted 04-30-2006 9:14 PM inkorrekt has replied

CK
Member (Idle past 4127 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 66 of 298 (307998)
04-30-2006 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by inkorrekt
04-30-2006 5:18 PM


Re: Evidence for Noah's ark
quote:
You cannot compare Noah's ark with such information which are yet to be verified. Noah's ark will one day be verified and authenticated. Till then, we cannot prejudge anything.
eh? You don't see the problem with this statement?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by inkorrekt, posted 04-30-2006 5:18 PM inkorrekt has not replied

lfen
Member (Idle past 4677 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 67 of 298 (308021)
04-30-2006 6:16 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by inkorrekt
04-30-2006 5:18 PM


Re: Evidence for Noah's ark
Yes, it seems you are suffering from another disorder in which you will not believe anything even if solid evidence is presented to you.
Eh? And the solid evidence you have presented for the ark is?
If it's the evidence I think you are referring to that has been refuted in detail.
lfen

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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inkorrekt
Member (Idle past 6081 days)
Posts: 382
From: Westminster,CO, USA
Joined: 02-04-2006


Message 68 of 298 (308036)
04-30-2006 6:48 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by lfen
04-30-2006 6:16 PM


Re: Evidence for Noah's ark
I did not present the evidence. In my earlier posts, I wrote that I wanted to see the man who went to the Mount Ararat to locate the ark. I have not yet met him.So, be patient. i will get the information and post it.

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Replies to this message:
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CK
Member (Idle past 4127 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 69 of 298 (308040)
04-30-2006 6:57 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by inkorrekt
04-30-2006 6:48 PM


Re: Evidence for Noah's ark
But you know that an argument to the future is no argument at all? It's a bit bizarre to tell people not to prejudge and then in the previous sentence talk about how the ark will be verified!!
This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 30-Apr-2006 07:04 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by inkorrekt, posted 04-30-2006 6:48 PM inkorrekt has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by inkorrekt, posted 05-01-2006 10:30 PM CK has replied

ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4110 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 70 of 298 (308064)
04-30-2006 8:10 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by inkorrekt
04-30-2006 5:18 PM


Re: Evidence for Noah's ark
You cannot compare Noah's ark with such information which are yet to be verified. Noah's ark will one day be verified and authenticated. Till then, we cannot prejudge anything.
we know its not true, because people have tested the possiblity of even a metal re-enforced boat of the size the bible lists, they found its impossible under a storm thats believed to have happened
if you have read about the 450 foot ships the chinese made, they would not beable to survive even a mild storm, they stuck to the coastline, and that was a feat
how would a ship claimed bigger than that survive a 40 day storm without breaking up?

This message is a reply to:
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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 734 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 71 of 298 (308074)
04-30-2006 8:43 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by inkorrekt
04-30-2006 5:18 PM


Re: Evidence for Noah's ark
I have also seen pictures of Mars in many published books. There are some structures similar to pyramids.
No there aren't - at least not in non-fiction books. No pyramids, no faces, no Elvis - not in reality, at least.

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 Message 65 by inkorrekt, posted 04-30-2006 5:18 PM inkorrekt has not replied

Replies to this message:
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ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4110 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 72 of 298 (308076)
04-30-2006 8:49 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by Coragyps
04-30-2006 8:43 PM


Re: Evidence for Noah's ark
i forgot the word, but its a part of the mind to make images in things that do not really have that image

This message is a reply to:
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CACTUSJACKmankin
Member (Idle past 6273 days)
Posts: 48
Joined: 04-22-2006


Message 73 of 298 (308089)
04-30-2006 9:14 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by inkorrekt
04-30-2006 5:18 PM


Re: Evidence for Noah's ark
"I met a man who claimed that many years ago, a 2 mile radius space ship landed and sucked him inside. The aliens gave him a physical exam and took away a part of his body. They also told him that they would return. I asked him if he ever watched Startrek. He said that he watches it all the time."
I don't know how this is relevant, pareidolia is part of how the brain processes information. Your eye picks up random shapes and your brain interperates them as familiar shapes i.e. shapes in the clouds. Pareidolia would not cause an alien abduction experience, that could be Hypnagogia or sleep paralysis (brain wakes up before the body does).
"I have also seen pictures of Mars in many published books. There are some structures similar to pyramids. I do not know if these are real or artifacts. If they are real, who made them? OR how did they come into existence. I do not have the answers. I am still skeptical about these pictures. Unless I have solid evidences, I am still skeptical."
I have seen photos of all kinds of "alleged" structures, it's nothing but random formations on the martian surface. The "face" on mars is actually a hill, but the way that light hits it, it appears to resemble a face. A great example of pareidolia.
"You cannot compare Noah's ark with such information which are yet to be verified. Noah's ark will one day be verified and authenticated. Till then, we cannot prejudge anything."
That glacial "ark" is just a random depression in the ice, it looks ark shaped because of pareidolia. The ark has never been verified to exist. Plus, as I have stated in previous posts, the whole story of Noah as interperated literally is impossible. No global flood, no two of every species, no single human family.
"Yes, it seems you are suffering from another disorder in which you will not believe anything even if solid evidence is presented to you."
What solid evidence? Please show me how that story is possible, and you still haven't addressed any of my scientific criticisms!!!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by inkorrekt, posted 04-30-2006 5:18 PM inkorrekt has replied

Replies to this message:
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inkorrekt
Member (Idle past 6081 days)
Posts: 382
From: Westminster,CO, USA
Joined: 02-04-2006


Message 74 of 298 (308340)
05-01-2006 10:30 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by CK
04-30-2006 6:57 PM


Re: Evidence for Noah's ark
Read message 68.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by CK, posted 04-30-2006 6:57 PM CK has replied

Replies to this message:
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ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4110 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 75 of 298 (308386)
05-02-2006 4:26 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by CACTUSJACKmankin
04-30-2006 9:14 PM


Re: Evidence for Noah's ark
pareidolia is what i was thinking of an interesting function of the brain

This message is a reply to:
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