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Author Topic:   Perceptions of Reality
ikabod
Member (Idle past 4483 days)
Posts: 365
From: UK
Joined: 03-13-2006


Message 12 of 305 (308726)
05-03-2006 9:53 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by RAZD
04-30-2006 8:58 PM


reality is where each of us live , and that is inside our own mind .
every thing else is ultimatly a matter of faith
... we have to have faith that our personal sensors ie eye skin etc are feeding us true data .. go read the latest ideas on how we form images from the info the eye send to the brain to see how much faith you need
.. we have to have faith in the facts we are told by knowledge sources ie books teachers scientist etc .. i mean i have never been to new zealand , in fact not to any part of the southern hemisphere , i have to rely on others to tell me of new zealand ..
... we have to have faith in the exsistance of things that have no physical presence in our universe ie love , beauty , equality ,etc

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by RAZD, posted 04-30-2006 8:58 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
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ikabod
Member (Idle past 4483 days)
Posts: 365
From: UK
Joined: 03-13-2006


Message 271 of 305 (397066)
04-24-2007 8:34 AM
Reply to: Message 268 by RAZD
04-22-2007 12:48 PM


Re: Reality
There are things that people perceive to be beautiful, ugly, moral, etc. and we can discuss these concepts and write books about them, but does that make the perception real? Doesn't that also make every myth, science fiction novel and dream real?
reality is everything , even the unreal , even hallucinations , the issue with perceving reality is we are on the inside , part of the whole big lump that reality is , we are too close to be able to see what the picture is , let allow if it is naturalistic , impressionistic or abstract ..and we are very limited in the ways in which we interact with reality .
What is needed is a well equiped observer outside of reality , then they could see what is there and tell us , IF they could constuct a language to pass meaningful ideas across .
We humans do have such a high opition of ourselves , that we tend to assume things are here for us to understand , do we think if we were not here reality would be affected ?
Edited by Admin, : Fix quote.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 268 by RAZD, posted 04-22-2007 12:48 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 272 by Archer Opteryx, posted 04-26-2007 6:09 AM ikabod has replied
 Message 278 by RAZD, posted 04-28-2007 10:33 AM ikabod has replied

ikabod
Member (Idle past 4483 days)
Posts: 365
From: UK
Joined: 03-13-2006


Message 273 of 305 (397471)
04-26-2007 7:41 AM
Reply to: Message 272 by Archer Opteryx
04-26-2007 6:09 AM


Re: Reality
what do you mean by not real ?
such an observer would have to be apart from reality to be able to view the whole , as i did say the would need to be well equiped .
i agree if reality is everything there is ,then i can not see of any way to find such an observer . Even any god/gods would be part of reality .
We with our very limited perceptive abilities have no hope of "seeing" what reality . (let alone what shade of blue it is )

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 Message 272 by Archer Opteryx, posted 04-26-2007 6:09 AM Archer Opteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 274 by Archer Opteryx, posted 04-26-2007 9:34 AM ikabod has not replied

ikabod
Member (Idle past 4483 days)
Posts: 365
From: UK
Joined: 03-13-2006


Message 279 of 305 (398286)
04-30-2007 3:49 AM
Reply to: Message 278 by RAZD
04-28-2007 10:33 AM


Re: Reality for Pink Elephants?
That a person has hallucinations is reality, but the "pink elephants" that they see in their hallucinations are not reality.
oh but the pink elephants are "real" , and this can be shown by the fact we are talking about them , we have brought them into our reality , just beacuse they have no physical state , not everyone can see them , and you cannot "agree" that they can be reproduced , even by the original hallucinator , they have a exsistance because we have interacted with them . . . . reality is everything ,everywhere ,everywhen ..
Now go extrapolate the above statement . . . . . . if you can prove the exsistance of rice pudding , income tax and god ( in what ever for she picks this week ) you are ...hmm 57.4% of the way to seeing the question ....
now consider love , truth , justice , hate , evil , crime , rights ,...do they exsist , or are they mere products of the human mind interacting with other human minds ? ?
are they real and part of our reality?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 278 by RAZD, posted 04-28-2007 10:33 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 280 by RAZD, posted 04-30-2007 7:36 AM ikabod has replied

ikabod
Member (Idle past 4483 days)
Posts: 365
From: UK
Joined: 03-13-2006


Message 281 of 305 (398313)
04-30-2007 10:18 AM
Reply to: Message 280 by RAZD
04-30-2007 7:36 AM


Re: Reality for Pink Elephants?
sorry but i disagree , we are talking about very specific pink elephants , we can define them in "real" terms , we can say when they first where noticed , we can list the people who have been affected by them , we can say when and where they have not been , we can list who and who not has interacted with them ... or are you saying there are things outside of reality that can affect us directly and demonstaightably ??
if reality is the inclusive whole and we are embeded in it all concepts that affect and effect us are real and a part of the said reality .
We can produce as much reliable data on these pink elephants , including the fact that they are a hallucination effect ,as we can on say Stonehenge ... which seems to be made of very solid lumps of matter ... both are part of our reality , the fact that they are made of differing things is just the way reality is .

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 Message 280 by RAZD, posted 04-30-2007 7:36 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 282 by RAZD, posted 04-30-2007 7:00 PM ikabod has not replied
 Message 284 by Sour, posted 04-30-2007 8:48 PM ikabod has not replied

ikabod
Member (Idle past 4483 days)
Posts: 365
From: UK
Joined: 03-13-2006


Message 285 of 305 (398535)
05-01-2007 6:28 AM
Reply to: Message 283 by Sour
04-30-2007 8:22 PM


Re: Reality for Pink Elephants?
I think Ikabod is confusing objective reality with consensual reality.
not really what im doing is not splitting reality up into parts based on features of the "thing" .The whole issue is that the specific pink elephants we are talking about are part of the whole reality that is our reality . Then we can look at the issue of things that have no physical form and how the work in our reality .
No one can share your perception of Stonehenge, but anyone can measure its size, and observe its shadow. The only person who can experience your pink elephant, or techno gnome, or insectoid ferris wheel or holy light, is you.
a points here , i am not talking about others experiencing the pink elephants , but they experience the people who have see the elephants , the "real" effect of the elephants is in how they have affected the people two or more steps away from the original vision.
ie the doctor treating the person for the hallucination .. his work is real ...his work is there because of the elepants , the doctors reality is shaped , partly by the elephants , and he the passes on the affect to the rest of the whole of reality .
I think you are confusing experience with reality, or denying that there is a difference.
no , i am saying reality is everything , including experience , everything we experience IS within , and a part of , reality ..
Edited by ikabod, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 283 by Sour, posted 04-30-2007 8:22 PM Sour has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 287 by RAZD, posted 05-01-2007 1:23 PM ikabod has replied

ikabod
Member (Idle past 4483 days)
Posts: 365
From: UK
Joined: 03-13-2006


Message 290 of 305 (398679)
05-02-2007 5:16 AM
Reply to: Message 287 by RAZD
05-01-2007 1:23 PM


Re: Equal Reality for Pink Elephants?
But your experience is not part of my reality. The only thing that affects me is your communication of your experience, which I am free to treat as either (a) fact, (b) possibility or (c) hallucination.
arrh , no i am not talking about reality expressed by the self , but the greater whole reality that include all the self's and there perceptions .. you are making your personal perception important , where as a i am starting from the point that reality exeist with out us , reality does not need an observer .
further i could not communicate with you about my experences , but they will still be there and your reality will now include a ignorance that you have no control over , and can not percive , until a outside sorce informs you .
All of our personal percevied realities are made up of masses of ignorances , where as Reality has none .
this is why perception is not a good tool to observer reality with ...harking back to one of my earlier posts on this thread .
Edited by ikabod, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 287 by RAZD, posted 05-01-2007 1:23 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 291 by Archer Opteryx, posted 05-02-2007 8:31 AM ikabod has replied
 Message 292 by RAZD, posted 05-02-2007 7:50 PM ikabod has replied

ikabod
Member (Idle past 4483 days)
Posts: 365
From: UK
Joined: 03-13-2006


Message 293 of 305 (398955)
05-03-2007 5:13 AM
Reply to: Message 292 by RAZD
05-02-2007 7:50 PM


Re: Equal Reality for Pink Elephants?
What I am saying is that if it is not part of my reality it is not part of the greater reality - that which is reality for anyone or any-not-one.
very intresting , because in your reality you do not know what i have in my left hand , thus from your statement , the apple in my left hand is not part of your reality and by your statmentnot part of the greater reality ... just because you can percive it !
this in effect you are claiming to create all reality by your action of perciving it ! if you did not exist there would be no reality !
My point is to start to understand reality one must detach the self and go beyond .
or are we all products of you perception , and thus have no free will , or do you have a skill in know other thoughts and dreams et al and percive free will in action ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 292 by RAZD, posted 05-02-2007 7:50 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
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ikabod
Member (Idle past 4483 days)
Posts: 365
From: UK
Joined: 03-13-2006


Message 294 of 305 (398957)
05-03-2007 5:16 AM
Reply to: Message 291 by Archer Opteryx
05-02-2007 8:31 AM


Re: Equal Reality for Pink Elephants?
spot on , and as we are near the end of this topic , i will draw a line here ...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 291 by Archer Opteryx, posted 05-02-2007 8:31 AM Archer Opteryx has not replied

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