The Fires of Hell Have Gone Out: No Eternal Torment

Which presupposes the fuel will run out. Start a fire and chuck on a finite amount of fuel. It will burn for as long as the fuel lasts. Now if the fuel burns quickly the fire will go out quickly, if it burns slowly it will last longer. Slower and slower and slower and slower and slower and slower....Are you familiar with the concept of infinity Ringo?

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These people were of "mankind." Yet Jesus said their father was the devil and not God. Are they in danger of torment then?

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That has nothing to do with this topic.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

I could easily write 100 posts explaining the symbols in the book of Revelation.It is clear that "lake of fire" is not something to be desired. And it is clear that being there forever is not good. This is going to take us off the topic. It is not necessary. Torment for five months indicates the duration of torment. Torment forever and ever also indicates the duration of torment.It is as simple as that. Weak. Prove that the lake of fire into which all those whose names are not written in the book of life is ANOTHER lake of fire beside that which the beast and the false prophet are cast, with Satan.Then prove that there is any reason why we should assume the others cast into the lake of fire beside the beast and the false prophet, should be more comfortable than them.On what basis do you assume the place is different or the result is different between Rev. 20:10 and Rev. 20:15 which says:"And if ANYONE was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire" (Rev. 20:15).Why should we believe that their result should be different from the specific people mentioned in verse 10?This message has been edited by jaywill, 05-07-2006 06:54 PM

Purpledawn, Wait a minute. You put forth a concept that God would not torment His children.There are passages that indicate that some of mankind are not His children. It is on topic to discuss if such ones, not being children of God, are in danger of torment.Why do you say it is not on the topic?This message has been edited by jaywill, 05-07-2006 07:17 PM

Not sure what you are going on about. You asked a question and I answered it. The other narrative was to explain how I read context of the verses.You're asking questions about assumptions I haven't made. I really have no answers for you.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

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It is on topic to discuss if such ones, not being children of God, are in danger of torment.

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Not if there isn't any eternal torment. That is the topic of this discussion.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

Purpledawn, So the overall message is not composed of individual verses?This doesn't make sense.Besides this you made it clear that you don't UNDERSTAND the business about the men being tormented for five months. It does not say they are warned for five months. It says that they are tormented five months. In fact the torment is so bad that they want to die and cannot.Now, we may argue about the nature of locusts and their stings and all that. But the communication is quite clear that the duration of suffering will be five months.Latter we see the duration of suffering is forever and ever. I think you are obfuscating away from the question.

In the Bible? Book, chapter and verse, please. Would there be an infinite number of people judged?

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I think you are obfuscating away from the question.

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What in the world are you talking about?Your question: There is no believing or rejecting, it has to do with understanding the message of the vision.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

Purpledawn, It is related to the topic. And I believe that you realize that.If there is no "eternal punishment" should we also believe that there is no "eternal Spirit?" (Hebrews 9:14) And if not, why not?If there is no "eternal punishment" then is there also no "King eternal" (1 Tim. 1:17)? If not, then why not?Is there also no "eternal salvation," (Heb. 5:9) no "eternal redemption," (Heb. 9:12) and no "eternal inheritance" (Heb. 9:15)? Is there also no "eternal power" (Rom.1:20)?. Is there no "eternal glory" (2 Tim. 2:10)?If there is no eternal punishment then why should we believe any of these preceeding things ARE eternal?`This message has been edited by jaywill, 05-07-2006 07:48 PMThis message has been edited by jaywill, 05-07-2006 07:48 PMThis message has been edited by jaywill, 05-07-2006 07:49 PM

Nope. All off topic. I didn't say there wasn't any eternal punishment. I said no eternal torment.If you're going to butcher it, at least get it right.

Purpledawn, The question is what in the world are YOU talking about, denying the clear and plain passages of the word of God?

Pdawn, So eternal punishment is not eternal torment?Write it out clearly before I discuss it. Commit yourself.

Pdawn, Does it take that much time?I think you're wise to adopt a more minimalist approach. I mean lay low and write less and less. Keeping your comments real brief as to not stake out too definite a position. No position is much easier to defend.I notice your posts are coming with fewer and fewer words, one liners, cautious, witholding your opinion.

I said a finite amount of fuel = finite amount of people. I was making the point that this.. Is true. But we have no reason to suppose a finite amount of fuel will ever burn out. Infinitiy means you can count forever. Just like eternity goes on "forever and ever". Implying forever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever...The slower, the slower, the slower, the slowerA fire which can go out but only at some point forever in the future.In the meantime... punishment.