Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
6 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Mutations Made Easy
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 52 (310353)
05-08-2006 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Hyroglyphx
05-08-2006 3:14 PM


Re: Gene transfer
Hi, nemesis.
quote:
But the clincher is, a beneficial mutation is so rare, and so sparingly understood, that the liklihood of it propagating a mcaroevolutionary method is extremely unlikely even in one population, let alone, all of them.
Is this another theoretical argument that ends up getting trumped by the huge amount of real life evidence that shows that life has evolved over three and a half billion years?
--
By the way, I did write a response in our continuing dialogue in the Evolution Simplified thread. No problems if need time to compose your response (I'm patient) -- I just want to make sure you didn't miss it among all the other posts.

"Religion is the best business to be in. It's the only one where the customers blame themselves for product failure."
-- Ellis Weiner (quoted on the NAiG message board)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Hyroglyphx, posted 05-08-2006 3:14 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 31 of 52 (310552)
05-09-2006 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Hyroglyphx
05-09-2006 12:10 PM


Re: Gene transfer
Hello, nemesis. I admit that I am now confused as to your misunderstanding of this topic: in your own words:
quote:
...all systems, whether open or closed, will always tend toward disorder w/o the intervention of newly introduced energy.
Your own words recognize that it is possible for systems to achieve greater order if energy can be introduced. That is what happens in biological systems; animals eat, and plants photosynthesize, and some bacteria can extract energy for high energy inorganic compounds.
So what exactly is the problem here?

"Religion is the best business to be in. It's the only one where the customers blame themselves for product failure."
-- Ellis Weiner (quoted on the NAiG message board)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Hyroglyphx, posted 05-09-2006 12:10 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 38 of 52 (312044)
05-15-2006 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Hyroglyphx
05-15-2006 2:48 PM


Re: Gene transfer
quote:
The influx of energy into an open system would not decrease entropy.
I don't understand your continued confusion on this topic, despite that it has been explained to you several times by people who understand it. The second law of thermodynamics only applies to closed systems. The second law of thermodynamics states that the quantity dQ/T integrated between the beginning and ending states of a closed system cannot decrease. But once the system is open, and especially if there is an input of energy into the system, the is no longer true; the entropy can decrease in an open system provided there is a source of free energy.
No one is claiming that the input of energy is by itself sufficient to ensure that the entropy will decrease. What people are saying is that once there is a source of energy, there is the possibility for the entropy of an open system to decrease, and so the second law no longer applies.
This is freshman level physics. It is mystifying to me how it is that you cannot seem to grasp this even though several people have been trying to explain this to you.
-
quote:
Actually, the added heat energy would increase the rate at which things deteriorate.
Actually, this is not true at all.
Edited by Chiroptera, : Corrected a minor typo.
Edited by Chiroptera, : And a not so minor typo.

"We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the same sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart."
-- H. L. Mencken (quoted on Panda's Thumb)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Hyroglyphx, posted 05-15-2006 2:48 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by scoff, posted 05-15-2006 4:58 PM Chiroptera has replied
 Message 45 by Hyroglyphx, posted 05-16-2006 10:39 AM Chiroptera has replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 41 of 52 (312091)
05-15-2006 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by scoff
05-15-2006 4:58 PM


Oh, great!
As if we didn't have enough to worry about from Global Warming, we can now add the threat of armies of blood-thirsty mutants to the list!

"We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the same sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart."
-- H. L. Mencken (quoted on Panda's Thumb)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by scoff, posted 05-15-2006 4:58 PM scoff has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by scoff, posted 05-15-2006 6:35 PM Chiroptera has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 47 of 52 (312409)
05-16-2006 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by Hyroglyphx
05-16-2006 10:39 AM


Re: Gene transfer
quote:
Do understand my objection?
Indeed I do. You read junk websites. You do not understand basic physics, yet you think your junk websites have better information than those of us who spent years studying physics and have degrees in physics.
The fact is that the Second Law of Thermodynamics does not prevent the evolution of species any more than the Second Law of Thermodynamics prevents a single-celled zygote from developing into an adult animal. When you have figured out how a zygote can delvelop into an adult animal without violating the Second Law of Thermodynamics, then you will be close to figuring out how species can evolve over time. Hint: it is exactly the same process that applies in both cases!

"We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the same sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart."
-- H. L. Mencken (quoted on Panda's Thumb)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Hyroglyphx, posted 05-16-2006 10:39 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024