Ipetrich
Rapid and consistent currents can be produced by rivers, especially flooding rivers.
I have no idea how much you know about geology, but that is not the nature of the geo-col. Everyone thinks the geo-col is river beds and swamps. It categorically isn't. The geo-col whether marine or frehwater is constructed from vast
sheets of strata. It's not rivers! Rivers are actually very difficult to find in the geo-col! (I wonder why??). Most of the geo-col is constucted from sheets of marine strata generated as the continents were inundated by the sea. Mainstream science calls this transgressing 'epieiric seas'. We call it flood surges as the paleocurrent indicators directly suggest.
Furthermore, the fine scale of some formations points directly to slow rather than fast deposition.
I wont deny that some formations are problematic for us (but that is also the case for your scenario). We propose that the geo-col was formed during about six global surges (triggered by catastrophic global tectonics) as recorded in the mainstream sea-level curves deduced from global sequence stratigraphy. We put the low energy sedimentaito evnets in between these surges.
And fossil graveyards can easily be produced by gradualistic processes and by such "catastrophes" as flooding rivers.
Possibly, possibly not. I'm not an expert on fossil graveyards.
The formations of them were clearly separate events, as distinguished by their different fossil contents.
That's just a viewpoint. During the Mesozoic, and especially the Paleozoc, paleocurrents correlate across Norht America both vertically and horizontally. What you call separate events seem to be linked across the continent. The 2nd order sea-level curves, at the very least, were global inundation events of course and the paelocurrents generally record rapid, correlated currents.
One well-known one, the La Brea Tar Pits, had lots of animals and plants in it that were either of presently-living species or of closely-related extinct species.
We're quite happy to entertain misceallaneous catastrophic and gradualistic events since the flood.
TB, what difficulties have Flood Geologists explicitly admitted? Yes, I am dead serious about the explicit part.
Check my posts:
* stratigraphic separation of modern mammals and dinosaurs
* stratigraphic separation of amphibians and flowering plant boundaries
* catastrophic tectonics releases too much heat in too short a time
* there is evidence of genuine habitaiton at many multiple stratigraphic levels during what we call the flood rocks
* there is evidence of slowly formed and wind formed strata
* etc
And how is that supposed to be the case?
The correlated paleocurrent indicators are far more consistent with rapid flood surges. We havesand waves of dozens of feet, ripples tha tcorrelate in orientaiton across sub-continets and for thousands of feet of strata.
It is easy to study existing lakes and look for layers. It is not so easy to locate a recent catastrophic event and loko for layers or set it up experimentally.
TB admits that the single-catastrophe hypothesis is counterindicated by lake-bottom layers.
Where do I do that?
However, many craters are heavily eroded, and some, like Chicxulub, have been buried by sediment.
In our scenario we still hahve 4500 years of gradualism, we leave open the possibiilty of cratering during the flood (into soft sediment) and also leave open the possibility of catastrophic glacial melting at the end of the post-flood iceages.
my point in mentioning them is simple: how they were established to be impact craters.
Fine with me.
he large-scale flow features that clinch the case for those giant Pleistocene floods.
Also fine with me.
what? There is absolutely zero evidence that the rocks starting with the Cambrian had been laid down by a single year-long planetwide flood.
Take another look at the Grand Canyon starta. It's a near continuous record of layering. The para-confomrities are of trivial relief. There is nothing stopping these being flood rocks.
Coal is often found in "cyclothems", which are alternations of coal and rock -- often several in sequence.
Cyclothem coal beds formed over huge flat regions stretching across the east coast (of USA). They alternate with snadstone which betray rapid delivery via south-west paelocurrents correlated across that region. In our scenario the rapid currents brought in the vegetation as a foating mat that then dropped bark and plant material that formed coal.
Except that we don't have to fit everything into one year, complete with multiple episodes of consolidation, faulting, erosion, evaporation, lava flows, etc.
In a global catastrophe of this type one shold expect thousands of feet of strata to form in a year.
In fact, we have an objective timescale: radioisotope-decay dating.
Creaitonists have evidence tha tradiodecay was accerlated. There is vast excess of helium in biotites that should have escaped at the observed temperatures. The actual helium concnetraitons suggest that the supposed billions of years of decay occurred in only a 4,000-14,000 year time frame. Diffusion is a time dependent phsyical property just as nuclear deay is. It does not support radiodecay having occurred at constant rates.
TB: I will not argue ours is better at this point. We have only spent about 100 serious man-years on this scenario compared to your millions of man-years.
Cry us all a river as big as the Amazon.
I'm not crying at all. I'm just soberly aware of the facts.
Including the formation of pre-Pangaea supercontinents like Rodinia?
Yes
And evidence of former mountain ranges (orogens) extending back for ~2 billion years or more?
Fine except we would put it simply as pre-flood.
And the formation of all of the Hawaii-Emperor seamount chain in a few centuries or less?
Yes, during catastrophic tectonics one would get hot-spots creating island chains in the same manner as mainstream science expects.
The only reason that you think it all happened slowly is radiodecay and a lack of belief in the flood. The actual geometry of the rocks does not actually require or suggest gradualism for any of these processes!
[This message has been edited by Tranquility Base, 02-03-2003]
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