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Author Topic:   Debating evolution
jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 7 of 91 (310591)
05-09-2006 6:51 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by SR71
05-09-2006 6:29 PM


It sounds like you've gotten yourself into one of those really great discussions we all enjoy when we're young, but that neither one of you has a clue what it is you're supposed to be discussing. You are both saying things but there is simply no connection between what one of you is saying with what the other one is saying.
From your OP.
I'm just a teenager and I'm debating with another teen... I am supporting evolution and he is a Christian.
That sentence makes no sense. What does being a Christian have to do with Evolution? Every major Christian Church accepts evolution and supports teaching the Theory of Evolution and opposes Biblical Creationism. If he is rejecting Evolution he needs to base it on something other than Christianity because there is no question that Christianity accepts the TOE.
Then in your second message you added:
He told me that when scientists actually look into stuff, they find out that God is real. Which, he says, is why most real scientists are Christian.
Again, what does that have to do with anything? There is nothing about Evolution that would imply that GOD does not exist or that God is not real.
You both need to look into what it is you're debating. He needs to actually look at the evidence supporting Evolution and you need to look at what Christianity's position really is related to the TOE.
You can start at the Open Letter Project where over 10,000 US Christian Clergy have signed supporting Evolution.
His job is going to be a little harder. He needs another decade or so of researching before he will even be halfway prepared to dispute the TOE.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by SR71, posted 05-09-2006 6:29 PM SR71 has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 13 of 91 (310602)
05-09-2006 7:48 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by SR71
05-09-2006 6:54 PM


Go out side on a clear night. See stars? If so, then the earth is older than 6000 years.
See Message 1.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by SR71, posted 05-09-2006 6:54 PM SR71 has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 33 of 91 (310997)
05-11-2006 10:11 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by SR71
05-11-2006 9:57 AM


What you are facing is called the Gish-Gallop. It's the old tactic of throw the plate of spaghetti on the ceiling and see what sticks. When you bring up one thing they just dismiss or ignore what you say and toss out a dozen more wild pitches.
Patience is needed. Take one issue and keep hitting on that one issue. Ignore the rest until the first is settled.
But understand, you are unlikely to make any progress.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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 Message 31 by SR71, posted 05-11-2006 9:57 AM SR71 has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 42 of 91 (311136)
05-11-2006 6:19 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by SR71
05-11-2006 3:35 PM


Yup, Gish Gallop.
He is now attacking Atheism, lol, saying that an atheist can't have morals without God.
That's the classic tactic of Creationists. You might remind him that according to the Bible most of the Goats will be believers, not Atheists.
See Matthew 25:44

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by SR71, posted 05-11-2006 3:35 PM SR71 has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 49 of 91 (311245)
05-11-2006 10:45 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by SR71
05-11-2006 10:33 PM


another example of the Gish Gallop.
Get used to it. When they cannot support their positions they dash away to something else.
As too logic:
Logic is no big deal. It seems to develop among almost all species, dolphin, all the primates including man, many birds, octopi and squid.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by SR71, posted 05-11-2006 10:33 PM SR71 has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 58 of 91 (311291)
05-11-2006 11:46 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by SR71
05-11-2006 11:42 PM


That's exactly how it's done.
Just question answers.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 66 of 91 (311387)
05-12-2006 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by SR71
05-12-2006 10:25 AM


Creationists don't read.
One thing that you need to understand is that Creationists don't read the same way most folk do. They exhibit what I call, wilfull ignorance. That is, they select only that evidence that supports their position and wilfully ignore all the evidence that refutes their position. If your little friend had read the full article he gave you, he would have found the link at the bottom pointing out that since 2001 experiments have shown that the missing neutrinos have been found.
Look at the text for the last link on the very page he pointed you towards. The text admits that all of the proceeding rant was wrong, but it's only a footnote, no effort was made to correct the mass of misinformation in the article itself. Their link does not work since it simply pointed to some press release and not, as you would expect, to Sudbury itself. You can though get to Sudbury directly. It is at Sudbury Neutrino Observatory and the results are found at Sudbury Salt Phase Results and shows not only that the intial findings were correct but that subsequent findings have supported and refined those intitial ones.
In addition, the very last line on the page:
The implications of this development for estimates of the sun’s age and operating mechanism will have to await further analysis by scientists who are open to the possibility that the data points to a young sun.
shows a classic example of creationist wilfull ignorance.
The data is the data. The preconceived notions of investigators has nothing to do with the issue. ALL of the available data simply points to an old universe and none of the data points to a young universe.
Most of the Biblical Creationists sites simply lie. They seem to believe that lying for Jesus is not just acceptable practice, it is the desired mode of propaganda.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by SR71, posted 05-12-2006 10:25 AM SR71 has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 70 of 91 (311400)
05-12-2006 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by SR71
05-12-2006 11:23 AM


I disprove his main points so instead of continuing to defend them, he simply brings in more.
Yup, Gish Gallop.
The good news is that he will eventually run out of things for me to disprove.
You wish. While it does appear that God may have set some limit on how intellegent or knowledgeable an individual may become, there is no limit on stupidity.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by SR71, posted 05-12-2006 11:23 AM SR71 has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 75 of 91 (311613)
05-12-2006 9:03 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by SR71
05-12-2006 8:49 PM


You can't yet
But then he relies on the same thing. He says GODDIDIT and you say Nature did it.
That one is just a wait and see.
That move is called God of the Gaps. For a long time folk said God was in the thunderstrom, or earthquake or volcano. Gradually we found out what caused those. No God. If he wants to pin his hopes on creating life, he will find that during his lifetime that gap too gets closed.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by SR71, posted 05-12-2006 8:49 PM SR71 has not replied

  
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