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Author Topic:   Debating evolution
NosyNed
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Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 22 of 91 (310646)
05-10-2006 12:00 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by SR71
05-09-2006 11:02 PM


An excellent exercise
I don't know what it is about him, but he really loves to take little bitty things, completely irrelevant... throw them into the debate to get me off track. Then we have pages of discussion that has NOTHING to do with evolution, but more with the percent of scientists that are Theistic.
You are not likely to convince him. However, take the whole thing as an excellent (if very, very challenging) exercise in holding on to the actual topic and keeping focussed. Do not (hard as it is) let yourself be dragged off topic.
For example: the moral issue. You may suggest that is a philosophical (or very difficult question in some other area) and that it would be very interesting to come back to it. However, that has nothing to do with the facts of geology, physics, chemistry and biology. You might suggest he stick to those things first and then, if needed come back to the philosophical implications.
If he is really hopeless then you will find that he will NOT stick it out. The reason is either that he isn't capable of handling the intellectual challenge or he is but can see, vaguely, where it is all heading and doesn't want to go there. If he follows you carefully and you stick to the topic he ends up having to undergo a gut-wrenching change in world view (but you should note strongly NOT a loss of faith) or worse? arrive at a conclusion that is god deceives in some infathomable way.
Others here who have been through it all might be able to give you more insight.
Meanwhile, use if as a mental exercise for yourself. How well can you resist the red herrings?

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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 63 of 91 (311382)
05-12-2006 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by SR71
05-12-2006 10:25 AM


Shrinking sun
Up thread Coryagyps (see Message 43linked to a post elsewhere that showed some E=mc**2 calculations. The sun is losing mass at the rate of millions of tons a second to produce energy.
However, the calculations given suggest that in 5 billion years it would loose abou 6 % of it's mass.
If he is trying to use this to suggest a young earth he is wrong. But he is right about the conversion of mass to energy.

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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 65 of 91 (311385)
05-12-2006 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by SR71
05-12-2006 10:49 AM


Sources
It's interesting. Whenever I thoroughly pommel his arguments, he turns to something like "but my source is NASA and your source is just scientists."
Proof is proof.
LOL, and what is this "NASA"? Is it the oracle that dispense all wisdom? Is it perhaps an organization with a lot of scientists working in it.
It is useful to know your sources and may allow you to short circuit the critical process to save time (or if you simply don't have the skills to critique the work) however it doesn't matter who the heck the source is: what are the reasons for the conclusions? Do they stand up?
Of course, his source is NOT NASA either. It is some liar lifting a quote from somewhere out of context.

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Replies to this message:
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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 69 of 91 (311398)
05-12-2006 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by SR71
05-12-2006 11:23 AM


A higher view
You might suggest that you and he start keeping a score card. If I kept using things from a particular source that were shown to be wrong and wrong and wrong again I'd consider that maybe they were not a reliable source.
He will not run out. He will forget and bring the same things up again.
The salt one might even be one that a major young earth site suggest should not be used.

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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 79 of 91 (311666)
05-12-2006 11:20 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by kuresu
05-12-2006 11:05 PM


Sirius A
It is not a red giant. (IIRC). It is blue white.

This message is a reply to:
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