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Author Topic:   Why Atheists don't believe
fallacycop
Member (Idle past 5548 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 48 of 310 (311921)
05-15-2006 9:20 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by riVeRraT
05-15-2006 7:32 AM


riVeRraT writes:
I have "heard" of people in Africa with no knowledge of Christianity being called by God to do His work, there was no belief first.
That's hear-say anedoctal evidence. Doesn't count for much

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by riVeRraT, posted 05-15-2006 7:32 AM riVeRraT has not replied

fallacycop
Member (Idle past 5548 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 50 of 310 (311923)
05-15-2006 9:26 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by riVeRraT
05-15-2006 8:57 AM


Holy Spirit/Born Again questions
riVeRraT writes:
For years, I called myself born again, because I thought that because I accepted Christ I was born again. God showed me different. It wasn't until He called me that I became born again, so I was kidding myself all those years.
Some people might think you're still kidding yourself. How would they know otherwise?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by riVeRraT, posted 05-15-2006 8:57 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by riVeRraT, posted 05-15-2006 11:32 PM fallacycop has replied

fallacycop
Member (Idle past 5548 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 84 of 310 (312259)
05-15-2006 11:27 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by iano
05-15-2006 2:08 PM


iano writes:
Would you fancy relationships with folk who had no choice but to obey you? Not much fun in that after the novelty wore off. Not much chance for love to flourish either.
Fair enouth. But would you then curse that folk and thousands of generations after them if they did not obey you? Eventhough they had no knowlege of good and evil at the time of transgretion? The size of a punishment must match the size of the transgretion. I think that selfish little god of yours is just throughing a tantrum for not having things his own way

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by iano, posted 05-15-2006 2:08 PM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by iano, posted 05-16-2006 7:27 AM fallacycop has replied

fallacycop
Member (Idle past 5548 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 90 of 310 (312274)
05-15-2006 11:59 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by riVeRraT
05-15-2006 11:32 PM


Re: Holy Spirit/Born Again questions
Some people might think you're still kidding yourself. How would they know otherwise?
Might?, lol.
They do, and they wouldn't know.
My point, exactly. Eventhough your account of how you became religious was very touching (I really mean it), your personal epiphany (I'm almost sure that's not the correct speling) cannot be transfered to other people. You're basically saying that you feel in your heart that there is a true god. To answer the OP question, atheists do not feel that in their heart.
I don't like the idea of it being some kind of exclusive club. Because I don't know who will go to heaven or not.
Point taken. I had noticed that from your previous posts too. You come across as one of the more openminded of the posters in the "Faith and belief" side of the coin in this forum.
Unlike, for instance, Faith that stated recently in another thread that people die of AIDS as punishment from god for their sins (what a load os crap...)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by riVeRraT, posted 05-15-2006 11:32 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by riVeRraT, posted 05-16-2006 12:29 AM fallacycop has not replied

fallacycop
Member (Idle past 5548 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 194 of 310 (312732)
05-17-2006 8:38 AM
Reply to: Message 94 by iano
05-16-2006 7:27 AM


fallacycop writes:
Even though they had no knowlege of good and evil at the time of transgression?
The choice was between good and evil - truly free willed at this stage. They had Gods command or a lie from the serpent. They knew what God said and they knew that what the serpent said opposed what God said. God said they would surely die and the serpent said they wouldn't. Choice on who to believe.
That does not address the fact that Adam and Eve had no knowlege of good and evil at the time of the transgression.
Sure it was a bad choice. But how were they supposed to know that? They had no knowlege of good and evil. They couldn't tell.
So lets see. God puts them in the edem. For balance puts a snake with them. puts a tree smack in the center of the edem for temptation. and give them no skill to tell good from evil. To top it off, the fruit of the tree gives them the knowlege that they were lacking, so they will realize the mistake they've made, but too late. Finally god curses Adam and eve, and thousands of innocent generations after them for doing something at a time when they have no way to know any better than that. That's one mean god you've got here I have to say.
This jewis mithology will only make sense in the context of a parable, (or a fable). To try to interpret it literally is a logical that end, I'm afraid.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by iano, posted 05-16-2006 7:27 AM iano has not replied

fallacycop
Member (Idle past 5548 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 211 of 310 (312751)
05-17-2006 9:28 AM
Reply to: Message 131 by iano
05-16-2006 8:36 PM


iano writes:
No disrespect CG. But when your "I just dropped in" average sentence-per-post drops below a certain minimum I reserve the right to not reply
Lame excuse not to answer.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by iano, posted 05-16-2006 8:36 PM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 214 by iano, posted 05-17-2006 9:40 AM fallacycop has not replied

fallacycop
Member (Idle past 5548 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 222 of 310 (312765)
05-17-2006 10:10 AM
Reply to: Message 183 by riVeRraT
05-17-2006 7:55 AM


IMPORTANT DIFFERENCE
riVeRraT writes:
IF you love your mother, or anything, do you need emprical evidence to prove it? Or do you just know that you love something?
Loving your own mother is a statement about one's mind internal state. it needs no outside empirical evidence. God's existance is a statement about the nature of the world outside of the mind. It requires empirical evidence.
If, for instance, you say that you know in your heart that god exists, this is only a statement of the internal state of your heart(Mind), and needs no empirical evidence. That unfortunately does not translate into god having to exist out-there in the real world. The crux of the difference is that nobody (that I know of) expects love to one's mother to exist out-there outside of that one's mind.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by riVeRraT, posted 05-17-2006 7:55 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 237 by riVeRraT, posted 05-17-2006 6:27 PM fallacycop has not replied

fallacycop
Member (Idle past 5548 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 227 of 310 (312772)
05-17-2006 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 203 by iano
05-17-2006 9:02 AM


INTELECTUAL STANDARDS
iano writes:
You only think your right. I know I am
It appears that your standards to decide wheater you actually know something is subpar compared to the standards of some of the other posters to this forum

This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by iano, posted 05-17-2006 9:02 AM iano has not replied

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