The Creo Manual Now on TV

The ppl that fall for the junk in that video are the same folks that think Lee Strobel is a good witness. That type of stuff is only "good" if you already believe it, as witnessing tools they are laughable.

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Asgara
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Well that's the whole point. They are tools, and they have a time and place to be used.Some people know nothing about the gospel of Jesus. Even people that go to church can't even answer the last question, in the series of questions, correctly.I do not believe it is the correct way to preach the gospel in all circumstances, but it is effective and quick way to get it across. I believe the correct way to preacht the gospel, is with love.

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Well that's the whole point. They are tools, and they have a time and place to be used.

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No, you have missed the point.Asgara said that this film will only work on people who have already drunk the Kool-Aid.

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Some people know nothing about the gospel of Jesus. Even people that go to church can't even answer the last question, in the series of questions, correctly.

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I do not believe it is the correct way to preach the gospel in all circumstances, but it is effective and quick way to get it across. I believe the correct way to preacht the gospel, is with love.

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Preaching with love but without sound theology is irresponsible.But hey, splinter sects of Christianity, or any religion, develop this way, so it's just another sign that anybody can preach anything and some people will believe it.

No, I haven't missed the point. I have first hand experience in using these tools. I cannot think of a better way to preach the gospel in such a short time.There is nothing there that is against the bible. It's all biblical, hence it is truth, and the truth always wins in the end. For someone that has no idea about the truth, it is a clear and simple way to let them know about it. Jesus saves us, that's the gospel of Jesus. We are forgiven by His act, that is what people need to know.Due to the confusion in the world today (or any other day) people are unaware of even the simplest of things about the gospel. There is a time and place for it. This makes no sense. How to love someone while lying to them?All religions have a golden rule of love others, but Christianity differs in that it is done through God, not ourselves. The others are just religious moralism.Preaching without the Holy Spirit is irresponsible.What we interpret from a book, is our own subjective religious moralism. When guided by the Holy Spirit, we are not relying on ourselves, but God. The difficult thing is doing that, being obedient to God, and relying on Him. Many times I have been eveagilizing to people, and things have come out, that I know are not from me. Thoughts that pop into my head, and when spoken over that person gives them deep revealation and bring them to a point a tears.There's no way in this world, that I am smart enough to con people into a state of this being on my own, plus it is not part of my nature, you should know this by all the conversations we have had. I am not a green miracle rag guy.

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No, I haven't missed the point. I have first hand experience in using these tools. I cannot think of a better way to preach the gospel in such a short time.

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Those tools are laughable unless you have already believe, and if someone is intelligent and already believes, there is a good chance that they will be embarrassed that the video exists.

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There is nothing there that is against the bible. It's all biblical, hence it is truth, and the truth always wins in the end.

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If all people needed to do is read the Bible to understand The Truth, then why are there thousands of christian sects who's doctrines differ so much?

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For someone that has no idea about the truth, it is a clear and simple way to let them know about it.

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No, for someone who doesn't already believe, the video is laughably stupid.That's the point Asgara made and that you seem to not yet comprehend.

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Jesus saves us, that's the gospel of Jesus. We are forgiven by His act, that is what people need to know.

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...too bad that the video doesn't work unless you already believe that.

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This makes no sense. How to love someone while lying to them?

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Who said anything about lying?People who interpret the Bible through ignorance or bigotry or political motivation, or whatever, aren't lying. They truly believe that what they are saying and teaching is the Truth.

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All religions have a golden rule of love others, but Christianity differs in that it is done through God, not ourselves. The others are just religious moralism.

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So what? Perhaps this very fact is what shows it to be a false religion.

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Preaching without the Holy Spirit is irresponsible.

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And pray, how am I supposed to tell if a preacher has the Holy Spirit or not?

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What we interpret from a book, is our own subjective religious moralism. When guided by the Holy Spirit, we are not relying on ourselves, but God.

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So how do I know if a preacher has the Holy Spirit?Lemme guess.I "just know"?Or, I have to take his or her word for it?

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The difficult thing is doing that, being obedient to God, and relying on Him. Many times I have been eveagilizing to people, and things have come out, that I know are not from me. Thoughts that pop into my head, and when spoken over that person gives them deep revealation and bring them to a point a tears.

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There's no way in this world, that I am smart enough to con people into a state of this being on my own, plus it is not part of my nature, you should know this by all the conversations we have had. I am not a green miracle rag guy.

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Don't sell yourself short, rat.We can all be great salespeople with enough practice and effort. Edited by schrafinator, : edited to add content

This is a true possibility, if God exists.
Maybe when the Bible says it's harder for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man to go to heaven, He meant "rich in logical thinking, knowledge or money".
I have yet to see a "logical case" for belief in God or Jesus as Saviour (or any religion for that matter) that stands up to a debate based on logic. The believers all seem to approach from emotion first, then try to use logic to fit inconsistencies and difficulties into their belief.
So, perhaps some of us are doomed.
Naah.

HA! HA ha Ha HA hA HAA AHA AHAAAh AAhA AAHAHAHAAHAH AAA.... -sigh-LOL.Sorry Ratty. I can’t help but laugh every time I hear this argument. {I was paraphrasing, if you hadn’t spotted it.}You can not assert a document’s validity or truth, buy asserting the claims of validity or truth contained within the very document you are claiming validity for! It stands to simple reason.If you can’t understand why this is, then there is very little point in discussing this further.

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All things being equal, It's time to tip the scales...
Ohnhai
http://www.ohnhai.com http://www.thewildmachines.com

Well, its a bit like the DaVinci Code.That book was based on fiction proclaimed as fact. It went so totally against the Bible that most theologians considered it dangerous to new believers as it may cause them to question their salvation.

Indeed.What many people failed to realise is that ”The DaVinci Code’ is, in its entirety, a work of fiction. This means that, other than the legally required information, every word in it is subject to fabrication on the author’s whim. EVEN if those words proclaim validity or truth.

That's dogma, has nothing to do with the truth. The video has nothing to do with anything.IT's actually going out into the world and preaching is what does it. No schraf, I comprehend just fine, I do not need your interpretation, I am just not agreeing with her. You should have got that immediately. Believe what? That lying is bad?
The ways of the master do nothing more than try to portait the truth in it's most simplest form.If you've lied, and lusted, and sinned, what will you say to God when you get in heaven? Don't answer me, because I really don't want to know. Only you and God know the truth about that conversation. If you can preach to anybody anything, and some people believe it, you are implying that people are foolish, and will believe lies. You know exactly what you said, yet you try to twist your own words around.If you preach to someone a lie, that's what they will have a lie. Eventually all lies get found out. Even if it has to be after we die. suuuure. Everyone is different. The short answer is by His fruit.
The longer answer is that, I believe you to be a very smart person, and you seem to know truth from lies. Probably the very reason why you don't believe. But if your still not sure, then ask God to reveal to you the truth. Only He can. If you seek the truth, then you will find it. Thanks for the compliment.I own and operate a HVAC, and plumbing business. I have to go and sell stuff all the time to people. People spend over $80,000 with my company, installing heating, air conditioning, radient heat, plumbing, etc. On one house. And I sell it to them.You want to know how?I tell them the truth.That's my sales pitch.

Well, it's more like, if there is a God, and it's the Christian one, then He is truth.If His word can be found through reading the bible, then the bible contains truth.Any principal from the NT that we take out of there and use, should work, since it is truth.

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That's dogma, has nothing to do with the truth.

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No, that's interpretation of the Bible. You were the one who said that, "There is nothing there that is against the bible. It's all biblical, hence it is truth, and the truth always wins in the end."

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The video has nothing to do with anything.

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Oh? Then why did you say the following about the video?:

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For someone that has no idea about the truth, it is a clear and simple way to let them know about it.

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IT's actually going out into the world and preaching is what does it.

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I thought that the vide was "a clear and simple way to let people know about the truth?"

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Believe what? That lying is bad?

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Er, what? That doesn't follow from what my message contains."Jesus saves us, that's the gospel of Jesus. We are forgiven by His act, that is what people need to know." That statement of yours is what I replied to with:"...too bad that the video doesn't work unless you already believe that."Please read the messages I write and respond to what I say. They are clear, and you are being snotty in your replies. Either that or you are having an amzingly difficult time following along.

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If you can preach to anybody anything, and some people believe it, you are implying that people are foolish, and will believe lies.

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But many people preach things which they do not believe to be lies.They preach the truth as they believe it to be the truth.Who said anything about lying?

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If you preach to someone a lie, that's what they will have a lie. Eventually all lies get found out. Even if it has to be after we die.

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And if you preach to someone and ferverently believe in what you are preaching, it's not a lie. It might be wrong, but it is not a lie.But besides that, people are definitely foolish and will believe lies if there is an emotional payoff for them. Just look at all of the people who believe Saddam Hussein had anything to do with 9/11.

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The short answer is by His fruit.

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Ah, so Buddhists have the Holy Spirit and I should be a Buddhist?

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The longer answer is that, I believe you to be a very smart person, and you seem to know truth from lies. Probably the very reason why you don't believe. But if your still not sure, then ask God to reveal to you the truth. Only He can. If you seek the truth, then you will find it.

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Oh, so the answer is I "just know"?

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I tell them the truth.

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That's my sales pitch.

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Right.You believe that what you are saying to them is the truth, no matter if you are talking about air conditioning units or God, so you are a very effective sales person.Your claim that you couldn't possibly have "conned" people into having some kind of transformative religious experience while you were evangelizing to them, and that it had to be God working through you is not at all true and is also is missing my point.You don't need to "con" them because you believe in the truth of what you are saying, just like I believe in what I am saying when I enthusiastically reccommend a wonderful olive oil or cheese to a customer.You're a good salesperson for your religion because you are a true believer, but that doesn't make what you believe The Truth.

I guess your right to an extent. Given the wacky sects of Christianity our there.I cannot say with 100% certainty that all of the denominations believe what these guys are saying. But I think most do.I think Christians can mostly agree that sins are bad, keep you from the Father, and that Jesus forgives our sins. That is the theme of what they are preaching. Not the video itself, it's going out and preaching the truth that the video is trying to let you know about.The series is called "ways of the master" and it's more of a training for evangelists to give them a clear and quick way to preach the gospel of Jesus. That is to let everyone know what He did for us. Why does Jesus save us?I will answer for you, because we are sinners. Do you believe that?People don't need a bible to know in their hearts that lying is bad.If lying is bad, yet we still do it, then what is going on?What Jesus did when He came was set an example. I think it is an example that we would all want to follow. If we could all get along according to His teachings, then this world would be awesome. People know that in their hearts, but we don't do it.And please don't start confusing religion with Jesus. I don't know. I can't say this with 100% certainty.All I can say is if I was a preacher, then my attitude would be a humble one, and I would recognize that I am on a journey with the rest of you. I can only teach what I currently know. Revelation, and life may bring about change to what I say, or my interpretation of it. Anyone who doesn't admit this is probably lying to themselves, and to us. If you think that is the right way with all your heart, then go for it. Yes, you do, you just have to find it. At no point did I ever say God exists for you, because I believe He exists for me.You managed to completely twist it around and made a strawman arguement.If I was a bad person, and claimed to believe in God, and follow Him, you wouldn't say God doesn't exist because of what riverrat does, would you?But if my fruits were good, you would be able to tell that I believe in God, and I am with Him, "if He exists". That would lead you to think that there is a possibility that He exists. Especially if you knew me before, then after. My life is a testimony to how God can work in an individual.That doesn't make me Jesus, so stop making me out to be Jesus.To me, it sounds like you are just making exuses to not believe. You will use the whole world as an exuse why God doesn't exist, and Christians are at the top of the list.To me that's ok, because you are on a journey.

Nice try, but you fall foul of the old pattern of going from a nice set of ”ifs’ to the good old positive declaration with no substantiation.You are assuming a God and that it IS the Christian God. On top of that you are assuming the existence of Jesus and the validity of his word, based on your assumptions re: God. Because of your assumptions re: God and Jesus you are assuming validity for the Bible in your last sentence when you say, “ . since it is the truth”.You are assuming validity for the Bible based on your belief in God and Jesus. But your belief in God and Jesus comes (ultimately) from what you can read in the Bible. It is circular validation and thus is no validation at all.

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If I was a bad person, and claimed to believe in God, and follow Him, you wouldn't say God doesn't exist because of what riverrat does, would you?

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Absolutely not.

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But if my fruits were good, you would be able to tell that I believe in God, and I am with Him, "if He exists". That would lead you to think that there is a possibility that He exists. Especially if you knew me before, then after.

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Absolutely not.You have just utterly contradicted yourself.If your behavior in the first example doesn't indicate the existence or nonexistence of God, then neither does your behavior in the second example.Your first example shows that the behavior of believers has no bearing on if God exists or not. It is inconsistent to then say that behavior does indicate the existence of God.

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My life is a testimony to how God can work in an individual.

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No.Your life is a testimony to how belief in God and following the tenets of a religion and getting the support of a community can work in an individual.Your belief and your behavior, as you just said, don't indicate that God does or doesn't exist.