Why Atheists don't believe

As children we have a propensity to believe what we are told. The default state is one of questioning. We believe what we are told because we trust out parents to tell us the truth.In our formative years we have little discrimination. We are afraid of the monster under the bed, or believe in Father Christmas. When we get older we compare our beliefs with our society and our experience. From here we discard the ones that conflict with our society or experience.Buts it's more complicated than that, what we learn growing up can in some people never change. You're stuck with what you grow up with. This can be seen Implicit and Explicit religiousity.Being exposed to xian concepts is the only way to make a xian. The default position is very definitely not belief in christianity. We may learn to believe in anything. But only to what we are exposed to.

I completely agree with every word that you have written here. You got it bang on the nail.Much better than I could have put it.

NO on no! You keep saying you KNOW it!You BELIEVE it!Two very different things.

But thats just it.I don't believe in your sky god (or any god) because I can see it is self evident that SOMEONE made it up.Ed: Incorrect quote tag.Edited by Larni, : No reason given.

The sense I get from you when you use the word KNOW is one of absolute surity.To KNOW is to banish any chance of error.I contend that the universe we live in does not have 100% chance of anything.QM shows us that probability can not reach 100% (If I'm wrong here could some one correct me as my arguement hangs on this fact).I contend that you cannot KNOW (by your defination) anything. When you use the word KNOW I get the sense that you are stating that you cannot be wrong in this.I contend that you can be wrong and that your confidence in what you lable KNOWing is misplaced.In answer to your question: Please note, I do not claim you are wrong (you could be right, in fact I hope you are) but that your confidence is terribly terribly misplaced.

False dichotomy.This is not that case.You propose a universe in which your existance is contingent on the xian god.This is an assertion. This is your belief. This is your conclusion based on your interpretation of the available evidence.Unless you claim you are a perfect conclusion generating entity with access to perfect evidence you cannot KNOW (as we define the word here) that your belief in the xian god is grounded in reality.In fact. To KNOW your god you would have to be it.

Fixed the Quote Tag, sorry 'bout that I see no problem here. Those words were spoken by a mortal and erroneously attributed to the divine.It is a good way for people to behave and I see no reason to attribute it to any god.

Really? Who said it first?More reasons not to believe.....

That is not what I meant. Your existance is contingent on the existance of your god. Whether or not you knew about your god or not was not what I meant. You seem to by saying that you cannot exist with out your god' existance.My question is why is this so?[qa] If I can know he exists when he actually doesn't, then I can know I exist when I actually don't. [/qs]This is logically false. We are back to KNOWing again. Your use and definition of KNOWing (as I understand it) is erroneous.You also continue to link your existance with your gods existance.Correct me if I am wrong, but you seem to be saying:Iano exist.Therefor Iano's god exist.Again I ask: why must this be true?How can anyone come to the xian (or any church) if this is the logic you use?

Iano, I would love it if there was a god (any god) who could show that all the bad things that happen to people are the result of some grand plan and that there is an after life where we can meet our loved ones etc.. and all we have to do is follow a few well meaning rules and all would be well.That would be great.But as the OP asks and I answer: the reason for my belief in a universe without any creator gods as written in many mutually exclusive texts is that there is NO positive evidence.None at all.There is no reason for me to believe except here say in word and text.Thats it.People will believe anything if it's put the right way. But only if they get exposed to it. Your belief structure is no different to ANY other and is just as full of glaring logical holes as the rest. That many people ascribe to it means nothing.

Thanks mate, appreciate the heads up

But this is self evidently wrong.If you do not exist, of course the world goes on. We could argue the point of whether the world is a creation of your imagination but why bother? You either accept that the worlds existance is independent of your existance (this is the Theory of Mind) or all bets are off. Again this is a false dichotomy.You can know that invisible pink unicorns do not exist and this will not invalidate you existance. You can believe ANYTHNG and it will have NO effect on your existance or the existance of anything else.That one exist is self evident to oneself. Appending the verasity of a belief on this self evidence is what you seem to be doing and is egocentricity in the highest form.You appear to contend that because you exist, a belief you hold is by definition true because you are as sure of you god's existance as you are sure of your own.This is a false dichotomy and to hold that view is logically flawed.

The 'hole' that springs to mind is that no two xians (to pick one religion) can ever agree on any one view of christianity.But thats not for this thread is it?How about addressing my previous post.

The only thing I have ever said is that your use of KNOWing is flawed. You hold up KNOWing as proof. I took it that this was a reason to believe. KNOWing (your definition of absolute accuracy) is (as I said) false. This is simply not so. Awareness does not dictate existance. Nor does existance dictate awareness. Sure.I contend that self awarness in the context of our dicussion is a given. I make an assumption that you and I are conscious entities. I contend we make this assumption to get anywhere.Further assumptions about the nature of the universe are open to examination and citicism.The fact that you KNOW you exist is an interesting fact but it ends there. All other questions are in no way connected with KNOWing you are real.Everything else is belief open to error. The question of whether one really exists or not is not relevant to the question of the existance of anything that is not you.It is a red herring.

But...but...but...Knowing that someone made it all up proves (to me) it is not real.If someone told you about Paladine or Takisis and said they were gods, you would not 'get to know them better' because it is self evident that some guy deved them up sometime in the past.I don't believe in gods because I am so damn sure it is ALL made up by people. Nothing has ever contradicted my perception of this single fact.