Why Atheists don't believe

Hopefully when the mirth subsides you'll have gotten the point - and seen yours refutedIncidently, when Paul chose (in Romans 1) an example of human sinfulness on which to demonstrate Gods wrath poured out on all the ungodlyness and wickedness of men, it was sexual perversion that he used.

iano Oh yeah! If we KNEW there was a GOD without doubt then we would live in peace and enjoy the garden of eden right?
Adam and Eve walked with God and even obeyed his edict to not eat of the fruit of the tree of KOGAE until he allowed a snake to con eve and thus allow for the "fall" of men and the subsequent long journey etc etc etc.Instead of removing the knowledge from them or now sitting them down and explaining the responsibilty that was now theirs {as a father would want to do} he instead curses them and the snake{all of whom were a creation of his making} and refuses to take the responsibilty that is his to begin with.
This God who had the capability to set the atoms in their motions the laws of nature in their place the vast stretches of the universe and their motions to ignite stars themselves finds difficulty with humans HE creates do things that HE sets up the conditions that HE subsequently allows to transpire? A God that created the universe has difficulty with his temper?Did he somehow not know the snake was there? Did he not know the fruit had been picked by Eve? Can you say say coersion and entrapment?If they were not to eat of the fruit of KOGAE then why was it there to begin with?You wonder why I am atheist!?

In your dreams. I suspect if he gave full revelation of himself with us in our current state then widespread insanity would follow. For people would have reason to despair. For they cannot live the life demanded by a holy God. God telling them what not to do (a pull in one direction) and....vacuuum. Nothing to pull them in the opposite direction. This is not choice. Choice only becomes choice when the pull (attraction) in either direction is perfectly balanced. The serpent fulfilled that role. God says vs the serpent says. Man, for the first time, had choice. And he exercised it. I don't think so. God created free willed beings and they exercised their will. I fail to see how some of the alternatives you put up would enable this. God taking them aside for instance and fully explaining (nay showing them) what the full consequences would be would have been unfair - unless some other equally powerful attraction in the opposite direction was allowed to arise. Balanced it had to be.Would you fancy relationships with folk who had no choice but to obey you? Not much fun in that after the novelty wore off. Not much chance for love to flourish either. Because its your God given right to be one.Maybe you can think of how to create fully free willed beings without them being able to chose against you? If you could, it would strenghten your position.{AbE} The reason your an atheist is that you have not compelling proof that satisfies you that God exists. God cannot give you compelling evidence against you free will - that would destroy your free-will in the process of him giving it. Resolution of the paradox seems to me only to be possible if you willing lay aside you free will (its yours to do with as you please). Then he can show you.Edited by iano, : No reason given.

So adam and Eve didnt know god existed? If so why punish them?

They were created without sin and knew God. But they weren't free-willed at that point. The point at which choice became possible they became free willed beings. Only after the serpent did his work did that kick in in full.God punished them because they sinned. Not a final punishment - for he had a plan of redemption already to set in place - knowing as he did that things would turn out this way

what does "the serpent did his work" mean in terms of Adam and Eve's free will, did he cause it? If he did why would it matter, you've already said that they knew God - and so by your reasoning could not disbelieve in him?

Ol' Paul. So terribly hung up on sex that he discouraged marriage. Yeah.You think that's where the Pope got the idea?

Paul was writing in a time of persecution when to have a spouse and children would be an extra anxiety. That is the only reason for his discouraging marriage. He never discouraged it in general, made it clear it was in God's will.

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How can one freely chose to disbelieve that God exists if one is given irrefutable evidence that God exists? It seems to me that once you have the evidence then choice to disbelief is no more.

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Since there is no evidence that God exists at all, that is an irrelavent statement.

So God is purposefully fucking with humanity? Woah, now I'll never worship him. THat's just an assholish thing to do.

How can my point be refuted? It's an entirely subjective viewpoint.Do lots of people believe in jesus? yesDo lots of people create webpages about jesus? yes.Does that mean Jesus stands out of a crowd to atheists like me?no.

zzzzzz

You didn't include the 'to atheists' bit earlier. Had you done so then your statement would have included that which makes it clear that you were being totally subjective. It appeared you were attempting to sound objective. Objectively he does stand out from the crowd.Any candidates who would usurp Jesus as the most notable and studied person (myth, if you prefer) in history yet?

Double postEdited by iano, : Double post

In effect the serpent enabled a choice to be made. Adam and Eve had no reason to disobey God. And God didn't cause the situation. Satan fell in the same way - own choice - hated God and what bore his image and set out to destroy. Satan laid an alternative out to obeying God. Choice arose. Adam and Eve chose. There are two types in the world. Those who believe God exists but disbelieve him when he says how it is they are to be redeemed from their position as slaves to sin. Knowing God exists isn't enough (modelled in the bible by the Jews)The other type - which is being discussed here is the person who doesn't believe God exists at all. The atheist/agnostic/non-God Religion (modelled in the bible by the gentiles)The latter are they who are in focus in the thread.