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Author
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Topic: abstinece-only sex education
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 9 of 306 (312110)
05-15-2006 5:44 PM
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Reply to: Message 8 by robinrohan
05-15-2006 5:38 PM
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Re: The Pill
Actually, it probably skewed the pregnancy statistics, but I can assure you it had little effect on the preliminaries. 
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 8 by robinrohan, posted 05-15-2006 5:38 PM | | robinrohan has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 21 of 306 (312158)
05-15-2006 7:40 PM
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Reply to: Message 18 by Faith
05-15-2006 7:14 PM
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Re: Since the 60s?s
Re-writing history again Faith? Thanks to the Christian Pulpit those laws were not only still on the books, they were actively being upheld by the Good Christians. In 1967 I was fired and black-balled from the industry for joining in a sit-in in a local resturant. Even into the 70's you still found billboards on the roads leading into towns that said "N... , don't let the sun set on you here! signed the Sheriff". Abstince only sex education is about as stupid as anyone could possibly imagine. It is based on foolishness and lies, and is a total complete failure. One of the biggest lies is that the 60's made a change in behavior. As one that was there, that is simply bull. The advent of the Pill may have reduced the incidence of unintended pregnancy, but it had NO effect on folk having sex. That went on before, and after. To think it didn't is simply more wilfull ignorance.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 18 by Faith, posted 05-15-2006 7:14 PM | | Faith has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 26 of 306 (312172)
05-15-2006 7:58 PM
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Reply to: Message 24 by Faith
05-15-2006 7:51 PM
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Re: Since the 60s?s
And stop reducing this to poeple "having sex." But I am certain there were more virgins, both male and female, at the ages of 18, 19, 20, in the country in the late fifties and even through the sixties than there are any more. Maybe in some deep dark cavern where there was only one person. LOL But I can tell you where the best hunting was. Head for a Christian Girls School. The more Fundie the school the easier trolling. Man, they would put out AND pay for dinner and the gas. You may think there was a change in mores, but that's just more wilfull ignorance and rewriting history. The only thing that changed in the 60's was perhaps there was a small reduction Hyprocracy.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 24 by Faith, posted 05-15-2006 7:51 PM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 29 by iano, posted 05-15-2006 8:05 PM | | jar has not replied | | | Message 30 by Faith, posted 05-15-2006 8:10 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 28 of 306 (312174)
05-15-2006 8:05 PM
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Reply to: Message 25 by iano
05-15-2006 7:55 PM
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Re: Since the 60s?s
Oh, I give women lots of credit. They know the Pill is possible today and I certainly hope they will be smart enough to keep the fudies from taking it away. Hell, sex happened. It happened in the 50's and in the 60's. It happened when the pill was in existence but when the women were prohibited by parents and laws from having access. It still happens even though the Christian Fundies try their hardest to keep folk from being educated or having access to birth control devices, information and education. I give credit to everyone out there but those who so joyfully embrace wilfull ignorance.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 25 by iano, posted 05-15-2006 7:55 PM | | iano has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 31 by iano, posted 05-15-2006 8:16 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 33 of 306 (312188)
05-15-2006 8:23 PM
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Reply to: Message 30 by Faith
05-15-2006 8:10 PM
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Whining again?
More on just how stupid and dangerous the program is. Just this month yet another report came out of the abject failure of abstinence only programs and the fact that they are just another example of the Christian Right intolerance and their continued attempts to force their unsupported nonsense on the rest of the population.
"It was clear that there was not a scintilla of something positive about the abstinence education method," said Michelle Gress, counsel for Souder on the subcommittee. Scientists have complained about increasing government interference. Last year, Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration officials told coordinators of a conference on suicide prevention to remove the words gay, lesbian and bisexual from its program and add a session on faith-based suicide prevention. This was the first time, conference organizers said, that a single politician had so clearly interfered and achieved such dramatic results. The concern, they said, was that studies on sexual behavior would not be made public if they jarred with the administration's views on abstinence and other public-health issues. "At the CDC, they're beside themselves," said Jonathan Zenilman, president of the American Sexually Transmitted Diseases Association and conference organizer. "These people aren't scientists; they haven't written anything. The only reason they're here is because of political pressure from the administration." From here. We need to wake up and realize that the Christian Right is but the American Taliban and is the biggest threat facing the US today.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 30 by Faith, posted 05-15-2006 8:10 PM | | Faith has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 34 of 306 (312189)
05-15-2006 8:24 PM
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Reply to: Message 31 by iano
05-15-2006 8:16 PM
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Re: Since the 60s?s
Nope, I answered it. The readers will make their own judgements.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 31 by iano, posted 05-15-2006 8:16 PM | | iano has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 38 of 306 (312197)
05-15-2006 8:41 PM
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Reply to: Message 37 by Faith
05-15-2006 8:31 PM
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More evidence of the Failure of Abstinence programs.
Evaluation of these 11 programs showed few short-term benefits and no lasting, positive impact. A few programs showed mild success at improving attitudes and intentions to abstain. No program was able to demonstrate a positive impact on sexual behavior over time. A description follows of short- and long-term impacts, by indicator. From here. Abstinence only programs were simply yet another way for the Christian Right to dip in and steal from the Tax Base.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 37 by Faith, posted 05-15-2006 8:31 PM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 41 by Faith, posted 05-15-2006 9:29 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 40 of 306 (312203)
05-15-2006 8:55 PM
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Reply to: Message 39 by Faith
05-15-2006 8:46 PM
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More evidence on the stupidity of Abstinence programs.
The first evaluation of programs used throughout the state has found that students in almost all high school grades were more sexually active after abstinence education. From here. The evidence just continues to mount that the Christian Right who are pusing the Abstinence programs are willing to lie about anything to achieve their goals.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 39 by Faith, posted 05-15-2006 8:46 PM | | Faith has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 43 of 306 (312211)
05-15-2006 9:45 PM
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Reply to: Message 41 by Faith
05-15-2006 9:29 PM
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Re: More evidence of the Failure of Abstinence programs.
My answer to the "failure" of abstinence programs has already been given. It's irrelevant. In my view it's a moral problem, not a mere health problem and you won't deal with the health issues UNLESS you deal with it as a moral problem. We know that is your position. It's another example of the Christian Right Taliban trying to impose their personal morals on the world. But it is also a way for them to move money from the Public Tax Base into their little money making cons. But it also a failure morally as the last link I posted pointed out, a failure in reducing promiscuity. Just as back in the 50s and 60s, the girls and boys that are the most sexually active are those from the Abstinence Programs. The whole Abstinence Only approach is just another example of the Wilfull Ignorance of the Christian Right. They are perfectly willing to ignore the fact that the programs don't work to reduce pregnancy or STDs. They are perfectly willing to ignore the evidence that the students that are actually MORE likely to be sexually active than those that recieve a balance sex-education. As long as the Christian Right can continue to move the money to their little congames they are perfectly willing to lie about the effectiveness of the program. Just follow the money.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 41 by Faith, posted 05-15-2006 9:29 PM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 45 by Faith, posted 05-15-2006 9:48 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 47 of 306 (312216)
05-15-2006 9:53 PM
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Reply to: Message 45 by Faith
05-15-2006 9:48 PM
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Thank you Faith
Faith writes: If you KNOW that is my position you can't answer it with statistics about how sexual activity increases when abstinence is taught, because that is totally irrelevant to my position, but that's all anybody here has had to say. I could not have put it better myself. What a GREAT example of wilfull ignorance. You say it is irrelevant if your porgams are totally ineffective and a complete failure. They are YOUR programs and so they are RIGHT, even if totally ineffective. What Hubris.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 45 by Faith, posted 05-15-2006 9:48 PM | | Faith has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 54 of 306 (312227)
05-15-2006 10:28 PM
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Reply to: Message 52 by EZscience
05-15-2006 10:21 PM
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Re: Abstinence Education Refused
Moving slightly (way) off topic. Public Education was never meant to supplant learning in the home. It's a way to share expensive resources. But if you look at students that succeed, you will find that Parental enviolvement is the single biggest factor.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 52 by EZscience, posted 05-15-2006 10:21 PM | | EZscience has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 70 of 306 (312398)
05-16-2006 10:39 AM
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Reply to: Message 66 by Faith
05-16-2006 7:24 AM
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Thank You Faith, even if it is Off Topic
Faith writes: And yes, animals are unfortunately under the same curse humans are as a result of the Fall, poor things, they didn't deserve it. And yet more evidence that supports only one of two conclusions:
- the Fall never happened.
- the god of the Fall is unjust and cruel.
And now back to our existing topic.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 66 by Faith, posted 05-16-2006 7:24 AM | | Faith has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 87 of 306 (312792)
05-17-2006 11:10 AM
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Reply to: Message 86 by CK
05-17-2006 10:48 AM
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Re: 3rd clarification question
Marriage has almost always been a contractual institution. There is almost no moral base for marriage.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 86 by CK, posted 05-17-2006 10:48 AM | | CK has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 88 by CK, posted 05-17-2006 11:14 AM | | jar has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 104 of 306 (312832)
05-17-2006 12:41 PM
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Reply to: Message 99 by nator
05-17-2006 12:34 PM
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Failure is the result of Abstinence Only mentality.
Actually, as pointed out way back in Message 40, the studies show that kids that receive abstinence only sex education are MORE likely to become sexually active.
Among the findings in the Texas study: About 23 percent of the ninth-grade girls in the study already had sexual intercourse before they received any abstinence education, a figure below the national average. After taking an abstinence course, the number among those same girls rose to 28 percent, a level closer to that of their peers across the state. Among ninth-grade boys, the percentage who reported sexual intercourse before and after abstinence education remained relatively unchanged. In 10th grade, however, the percentage of boys who had ever had sexual intercourse jumped from 24 percent to 39 percent after participating in an abstinence program. From this site. So what reality shows is that abstinence only programs increase the likelhood of kids becoming sexually active.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 99 by nator, posted 05-17-2006 12:34 PM | | nator has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Sex education is a public health issue
No, it fails because sooner or later, kids are going to have sex, regardless of their religion or what anyone has told them is right or wrong. Actually, as pointed out way back in Message 40 and repeated at times throughout this thread, Abstinence Only has been shown to INCREASE kids turning to sex.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 117 by EZscience, posted 05-17-2006 4:14 PM | | EZscience has not replied |
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