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Author Topic:   abstinece-only sex education
iano
Member (Idle past 49 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 31 of 306 (312180)
05-15-2006 8:16 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by jar
05-15-2006 8:05 PM


Re: Since the 60s?s
You mean a big reduction in the 'unwelcome risks' associated with sex would have no impact on a persons decision making process? You mean to say that if there were no pill tomorrow that woman (and to a lesser extent men - for they don't have to bare the brunt) would carry on unaffected by the increased risk.

You seem to be giving women less than due credit in the good sense department.

Like a second bite at answering the question asked Jar?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by jar, posted 05-15-2006 8:05 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by jar, posted 05-15-2006 8:24 PM iano has not yet responded

Faith
Member
Posts: 30962
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 32 of 306 (312183)
05-15-2006 8:19 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Coragyps
05-15-2006 8:04 PM


You are making my case for me.
AIDS wasn't in North America 40 years ago. Chlamydia wasn't recognized as an STD then.

Exactly. I'm talking about the NEW STDs, the ones never heard of before, before the term "STDs" was invented because of the proliferation of same.

Syphilis and gonorrhea are oldies that were finally conquered by antibiotics.

But AIDs and Chlamydia are examples of what I'm talking about, the increase in brand new STDs since the Sexual Revolution. Genital warts or HPV, which is a pre-cancerous condition is another. Genital herpes took off in the 70s as I recall, followed by AIDS in the 80s. Both HPV and herpes are incurable, being viruses. You can only keep them symptomatically controlled and have to live with them the rest of your life.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Coragyps, posted 05-15-2006 8:04 PM Coragyps has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Coragyps, posted 05-15-2006 8:25 PM Faith has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30935
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 33 of 306 (312188)
05-15-2006 8:23 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Faith
05-15-2006 8:10 PM


Whining again?
More on just how stupid and dangerous the program is.

Just this month yet another report came out of the abject failure of abstinence only programs and the fact that they are just another example of the Christian Right intolerance and their continued attempts to force their unsupported nonsense on the rest of the population.

"It was clear that there was not a scintilla of something positive about the abstinence education method," said Michelle Gress, counsel for Souder on the subcommittee.

Scientists have complained about increasing government interference. Last year, Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration officials told coordinators of a conference on suicide prevention to remove the words gay, lesbian and bisexual from its program and add a session on faith-based suicide prevention.

This was the first time, conference organizers said, that a single politician had so clearly interfered and achieved such dramatic results. The concern, they said, was that studies on sexual behavior would not be made public if they jarred with the administration's views on abstinence and other public-health issues.

"At the CDC, they're beside themselves," said Jonathan Zenilman, president of the American Sexually Transmitted Diseases Association and conference organizer. "These people aren't scientists; they haven't written anything. The only reason they're here is because of political pressure from the administration."

From here.

We need to wake up and realize that the Christian Right is but the American Taliban and is the biggest threat facing the US today.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Faith, posted 05-15-2006 8:10 PM Faith has not yet responded

jar
Member
Posts: 30935
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 34 of 306 (312189)
05-15-2006 8:24 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by iano
05-15-2006 8:16 PM


Re: Since the 60s?s
Nope, I answered it. The readers will make their own judgements.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by iano, posted 05-15-2006 8:16 PM iano has not yet responded

Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5381
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 8.5


Message 35 of 306 (312190)
05-15-2006 8:25 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Faith
05-15-2006 8:19 PM


Re: You are making my case for me.
And H5N1 influenza - "bird flu" - didn't exist ten years ago. SARS either. The incidence nearly has to rise if it starts at zero.

What point are you driving at, Faith?

"STD" just replaced "VD" because nobody took Latin anymore - "venereal" didn't mean anything if you hadn't.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Faith, posted 05-15-2006 8:19 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
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 Message 39 by Faith, posted 05-15-2006 8:46 PM Coragyps has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 30962
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 36 of 306 (312191)
05-15-2006 8:27 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Coragyps
05-15-2006 8:04 PM


Reference on increase in STDs
The range of diseases spread by sexual activity continues to increase. Sexually transmitted hepatitis A and B are becoming more common. Hepatitis C may also be spread sexually, although the risk of this is lower.

The increase in STDs worldwide can be partly explained by people starting sexual activity at a younger age and having more sexual partners. The use of the oral contraceptive pill and IUCDs has also reduced the rate of condom use.

http://www.medic8.com/healthguide/articles/stds.html

Edited by Faith, : added bolds


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 30962
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 37 of 306 (312194)
05-15-2006 8:31 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Coragyps
05-15-2006 8:25 PM


Re: You are making my case for me.
What point are you driving at, Faith?

Read the entire article linked in Message 36


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by jar, posted 05-15-2006 8:41 PM Faith has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30935
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 38 of 306 (312197)
05-15-2006 8:41 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Faith
05-15-2006 8:31 PM


More evidence of the Failure of Abstinence programs.
Evaluation of these 11 programs showed few short-term benefits and no lasting, positive impact. A few programs showed mild success at improving attitudes and intentions to abstain. No program was able to demonstrate a positive impact on sexual behavior over time. A description follows of short- and long-term impacts, by indicator.

From here.

Abstinence only programs were simply yet another way for the Christian Right to dip in and steal from the Tax Base.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Faith, posted 05-15-2006 8:31 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by Faith, posted 05-15-2006 9:29 PM jar has responded

Faith
Member
Posts: 30962
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 39 of 306 (312199)
05-15-2006 8:46 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Coragyps
05-15-2006 8:25 PM


Re: You are making my case for me.
And H5N1 influenza - "bird flu" - didn't exist ten years ago. SARS either. The incidence nearly has to rise if it starts at zero.

Answer from article linked in #36:

quote:
STDs are likely to have been around for thousands of years but the most serious, AIDS, has only been recognised since 1984.

Followed by statement about increase in promiscuous sexual activity and lowering of age.

"STD" just replaced "VD" because nobody took Latin anymore - "venereal" didn't mean anything if you hadn't.

We all knew what the term meant without having taken Latin, but we also thought of syphilis and gonorrhea as covering the field. A new clearer term was needed because of the rapid spread of the new STDs.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Coragyps, posted 05-15-2006 8:25 PM Coragyps has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 30935
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 40 of 306 (312203)
05-15-2006 8:55 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Faith
05-15-2006 8:46 PM


More evidence on the stupidity of Abstinence programs.
The first evaluation of programs used throughout the state has found that students in almost all high school grades were more sexually active after abstinence education.

From here.

The evidence just continues to mount that the Christian Right who are pusing the Abstinence programs are willing to lie about anything to achieve their goals.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Faith, posted 05-15-2006 8:46 PM Faith has not yet responded

Faith
Member
Posts: 30962
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 41 of 306 (312209)
05-15-2006 9:29 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by jar
05-15-2006 8:41 PM


Failure is the result of moral decline
My answer to the "failure" of abstinence programs has already been given. It's irrelevant. In my view it's a moral problem, not a mere health problem and you won't deal with the health issues UNLESS you deal with it as a moral problem.

ABE: Trying to enforce moral law always provokes more acting out against it, and especially in a time when sexual morality has been so discredited as it has been in our time. But it is a Law of God, whether we are able to appreciate it in that light or not, and you can fiddle with the health factors all you want, give out all the condoms and provide all the health services and so on, and it's only going to get worse. At least we should be trying to get across the moral factor whether it gets heard or not, and I suppose it won't get heard, but it's the crucial thing nevertheless.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by jar, posted 05-15-2006 8:41 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by kjsimons, posted 05-15-2006 9:37 PM Faith has responded
 Message 43 by jar, posted 05-15-2006 9:45 PM Faith has responded
 Message 99 by nator, posted 05-17-2006 12:34 PM Faith has responded

  
kjsimons
Member
Posts: 665
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003


Message 42 of 306 (312210)
05-15-2006 9:37 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Faith
05-15-2006 9:29 PM


Re: More evidence of the Failure of Abstinence programs.
Faith, you are so ignorant of human nature and history it isn't even funny any more, it's sad. Humans have been having sex out of wedlock since they've been human. It's at no higher rate now than in the past and may even be lower as marriage in ancient times was more for the propertied. In some cultures there were trial marriages (as in, try to get her pregnant) and if no child was created, you tried with someone else. Why don't you go read up on history and science and educate yourself?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Faith, posted 05-15-2006 9:29 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 30935
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 43 of 306 (312211)
05-15-2006 9:45 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Faith
05-15-2006 9:29 PM


Re: More evidence of the Failure of Abstinence programs.
My answer to the "failure" of abstinence programs has already been given. It's irrelevant. In my view it's a moral problem, not a mere health problem and you won't deal with the health issues UNLESS you deal with it as a moral problem.

We know that is your position. It's another example of the Christian Right Taliban trying to impose their personal morals on the world.

But it is also a way for them to move money from the Public Tax Base into their little money making cons.

But it also a failure morally as the last link I posted pointed out, a failure in reducing promiscuity. Just as back in the 50s and 60s, the girls and boys that are the most sexually active are those from the Abstinence Programs.

The whole Abstinence Only approach is just another example of the Wilfull Ignorance of the Christian Right. They are perfectly willing to ignore the fact that the programs don't work to reduce pregnancy or STDs. They are perfectly willing to ignore the evidence that the students that are actually MORE likely to be sexually active than those that recieve a balance sex-education.

As long as the Christian Right can continue to move the money to their little congames they are perfectly willing to lie about the effectiveness of the program. Just follow the money.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Faith, posted 05-15-2006 9:29 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by Faith, posted 05-15-2006 9:48 PM jar has responded

Faith
Member
Posts: 30962
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 44 of 306 (312212)
05-15-2006 9:45 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by kjsimons
05-15-2006 9:37 PM


Re: More evidence of the Failure of Abstinence programs.
Oh well, the ignorance is on your side but PC tells you different and there's no fighting PC. I lived through it, KJ, I practiced it. I know how things changed from the 50s through the 60s. I was part of it. You aren't even addressing the same subject. Rampant promiscuity regarded as normal, as status quo, is what was unleashed in the sixties, not "trial marriages," not the usual child out of wedlock that always happened in some proportion of the population. The incidence of marriage isn't even relevant since marriage didn't need formalities in many cultures.

Read the article about the increase in STDs and get your self-righteous head out of the PC sand.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by kjsimons, posted 05-15-2006 9:37 PM kjsimons has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 30962
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 45 of 306 (312213)
05-15-2006 9:48 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by jar
05-15-2006 9:45 PM


Re: More evidence of the Failure of Abstinence programs.
We know that is your position.

Hardly. If you KNOW that is my position you can't answer it with statistics about how sexual activity increases when abstinence is taught, because that is totally irrelevant to my position, but that's all anybody here has had to say. Except for ignorant head in the sand denial of the increase in STDs.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by jar, posted 05-15-2006 9:45 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by jar, posted 05-15-2006 9:53 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 51 by EZscience, posted 05-15-2006 10:12 PM Faith has responded

  
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