Why Atheists don't believe

There is a fair amount of caricature going on here too. Not least that your not expected to grovel to God. No doubt you wouldn't think it petty if God were to refuse a mass murderer entry to heaven. You might consider his refusing such a one admission is 'just' rather than pettyIf not the mass murderer then why you? Because (according to your measure of good/bad) you're 'not such a bad chap'? But you would probably admit that Gods measure is the appropriate measure for him to use and not everyones subjective one (in which case the mass murderer could apply the same thinking). And if God used his measure and not everyones own it is conceivable that you might fail the grade and that it is therefore just that you are not admitted either. 'Just' instead of 'petty'?As it turns out, the criteria is simply knowing him - not grovelling to him once you get to know him.

Fine. I honestly don't care whether I meet God's grade ot not! That's what I'm saying. I have no interest what he thinks is "just", any more than I have an interest in "knowing" him. Acknowledgment in this sense can clearly be equated with submission.By the way, what do you think will happen to non-Christians come judgement?

riVeRrat I am an atheist this stuff does not concern me. This is your beliefs layed bare before you. Here is the authority of Jesus on this issue. So here we have christ saying that the laws still pertain and shall pertain until all be fulfilled. Thus the laws I outlined still apply and I ask again which do you choose to ignore and why?Edited by sidelined, : Need to complete quote box

You mean you wouldn't find it interesting to meet the person capable of making all this. I thought you liked science? Surely that would be a fascinating meeting to behold? Submission of what? If the definition of a Christian is a person who is in Christ (an umbrella phrase for the transaction from lost > found) and not a title applied to oneself then all non-Christians will perish. Being 'in Christ' is an offer open to everyone. Any one who ends up not in Christ will perish due to their own rejection of the offer.

Of course - I'd have alot of questions. My point was that as long as he shows me no sign of his existence or intentions then I for my part have no interest in his standards of justice.Even if God does exist, why I should accept his views on justice? Is this a slightly elusive way of saying that non-Christians (those who haven't "found" Christ) are doomed to hell? Yes?So how realistic is it to expect a poor Hindu in India to "find" Christ? Does the reality of one's unbringing and culture offer no reprieve?

Of course you would. If he made you then you would have a sense of justice because he put that into you. And an enquiring mind because he put that into you and a conscience because he put that into you. Given the potential prize it would seem sensible to exhaust the options a little more than you appear to have - given your rather gross caricatures. A better question would be why not? Our sense of justice (even the best our legal eagles can develop) suffers from not being able to know ALL the facts and how those facts should be weighted in arriving at a fair judgement. The principle of "reasonable doubt" for example just serves to underlines this. People can lie, can exert influence, can charm, can fool our justice and so the judgements are imperfect. Not so God. Non-Christians are those who have rejected Gods attempt to save them. He calls all. All are welcome to come. Only our rejection can result in our being lost. I've heard a few testimonies in my time and one characteristic of them is the God found them not the other way around - illustrating a biblical principle which is that salvation comes from God. Man cannot do anything to save himself. He can only not lose himself - there is a difference{AbE} "I found God" is an expression used possibly by someone fresh 'in country' who doesn't yet understand it was the other way around. "He's found God" is an expression used by folk who haven't been found because they too do not know it is that way around The last figures for Ireland had 95% of the population label itself Christian. Round my way I would estimate that perhaps 600 people from a population of 15,000 attend church on sundays. Not that going to church makes you a Christian or not going makes you not one. But it gives a bit of a picture about the 'advantages of culture' What I learned in my early life was sufficient to ensure I didn't come within a mile of Religion for 38 years.I just finished a book this morning "I dared to call him Father" by Bilquis Sheikh, an Pakistani lady now dead. In it she described what Islam meant to her before she converted - it didn't sound all that much different to what Roman Catholicism meant to me: empty Religion adhered to for tradition reasons. Despite the danger and rejection by her family (much more onerous than it would be for a western mindset) she converted and she describes others converting too. God speaks through the mumbo jumbo. The mumbo jumbo can be anything at all. If the mumbo jumbo could be blamed for a person not coming to Christ then God would not be just. If the mumbo jumbo is used as a hiding place however then that is a different story.Edited by iano, : No reason given.

Hey there. Love the avatar by the way. Its even scarier than yoyopuppy.1) I don't believe in the divine - your god, I imagine - because I can see so many conflicting religions that to pick the one true one seems really hard - especially if hampered by predispositions inherited during my upbringing and from peer group. In order to arrive at a decision as to which one to follow, I would have to see some serious evidence to guide me.Unfortunately, the evidence presented by each religion to demonstrate its truth seems in most cases seems to me to be utterly underwhelming, and no one religion seems to stand out on the basis of any evidence offered to support it. If there's no evidence then you are setting yourself an impossible task to try to find the "true" one - or else you, like me, decide that maybe the paucity of convincing evidence for ANY religion is significant in itself.Ive come to the tentative conclusion that any religion is an attempt to come to terms with the big, scary questions like - where did granny go when she died? and the natural follow-on, where will I go when I die? And also the utterly perplexing ones like "why am I here?". That old Voltaire thing about God having to be invented if he didn't exist.2) As far as I'm aware, I don't believe in anything without evidence. I'd be very surprised if you were any different. Its the kind of evidence thats the issue. That isn't to say that I believe only things that have been proved in controlled tests, or that you only believe things that are only supported by texts written by ancient barbaric peoples. I imagine that all humans, as only partially rational beings, probably mix and match.Ive got a question for you, just for a laugh. I'm going to ask you to stretch your imagination a little, to imagine a universe in which human life, very much like ours, has arisen by blind chance. Do you think they would find it necessary to build fictions to explain the big scary questions and the perplexing one? Or not?Cheers!

So all religions except Christianity are mumbo-jumbo? It's just as well that you're a Christian then isn't it! Very... convenient! Sorry, but you just confirmed them, as far as I'm concerned.

That's pretty amazing, because I thought there were over 350 prophecies filled. I have not brought forth any proof's. You cannot prove God. I thought I made myself clear that I was omitting the banana thing, otherwise it's fine. For the umpth time, there is a time and a place for everything. It's not my job to provide anything for them to believe in. It is only my job to love, and tell them gospel, so they can judge for themselves. Like jano was saying in the other thread, their salvation does rest on my shoulders, which is debatable to a point, but as long as I am following the golden rules, them I am ok.Not everyone requires the same "evidence".If you will, give an example of this so called evidence.

That's my point. It's not.If you think it is, then your missing the truth, and I understand why you don't believe. It was all fulfilled already, that is why things are different. You owe your disbelief to what Jesus did for you.

quote:

---

You owe your disbelief to what Jesus did for you.

---

Disbelief was impossible before Jesus?

yet just before you claimed... That's the exact kind of evidence that drives folk away from Christianity. Many Christians do make such claims, but so far every single one that has been brought up has been shown to be flat out lies, quotemining, misinterpretation or just sheer nonsense. When the alleged prophecies are presented to anyone who has either read the Bible or is capable of critical thinking they will quickly decide that "them Christians are either stupid or crazy." The film is a joke even without the banana stuff. It is simplistic and absurd and a classic example of how to drive folk away from Christianity. Some of the evidence that Christians do supply are things like the intoreance and bigotry of the televangelists and many Christians that post here at EvC. It is things like the absolutely embarassing video that instigated this thread. It is claims like the silly prophecy fullfilled arguments presented, it is the wilfull ignorance of the YECs and anti-evolution Christians here and out in the world, it is the websites of DrDino and Gene Scott and Ron Wyatt and AIG and ICR.If you look at the image that most Christians show to the world it is one of small minded, very ignorant, intolerant, bigoted, exclusionary, uneducated, inconsiderate, opinionated fools.

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Personally, I disagree with this statement. It is the LOUDEST so-called Christians who so show to the world but not, in my opinion, the majority.It seems the web as a whole and, perhaps in microcosm this site, that seems to bring out the worst sort of Christians disproportionately to their actual numbers. My daughter rarely frequents this site but there are enough examples of the kind of s-m,v i, i, b, e, u, i, o fools that you speak of on sites she does frequent to have her making some very derogatory comments about Christians in general. I have to remind her that her sample may be badly biased.

If Christianity was the one and only way would it sound exclusive and intolerant of all others? Does that in itself make it wrong? Hardly.Truth is always intolerant of error. That doesn't make Christianity true but it tells you something of what you could expect if it was true. Call it a "prediction of the theory". A rethink perhaps - on this point alone?

Vitriol that not even the spammers of this world have managed to exude from you.John 15:18 springs to mind.