The problem with EVC

It's far too political. Nobody gives a damn about the truth. It's a snobbish clique.How about we do away with that garbage?I ask a question--I get no answer.I ask why somebody would think they are being addressed personally when somebody makes a religious comment. No answer.I ask why the FSM is the same sort of entity as God. No answer.I ask in which sense are the "facts" facts? No answer. Promoted from The problem with EVC by AdminNWR.

As a 'lay-person' I agree with your points,The snobbery starts with the whole PNT system in my view. I come here make a post, ask a question, express a view point, and someone tells me my question/viewpoint is not valid and will not be considered. WTF???
If that is the case then the thread will die a natural death, no need for a termination. (In fact, I don't think I have ever had a PNT refused.. but the point remains true I think)I see a lot of the attitude on here as being like a school class trying hard to outdo each other. PNTs submitted like term papers, and the Mods on high, like the gods above.. deciding who shall play.
perhaps this is as a result of the high proportion of academic types?Wrt unanswered questions etc. I've thought before that it would be interesting to have something akin to a leader board.
If a poster refused to respond to a question you could maybe tick a box that records this, similarly for personal insults etc. thus say Creavolution would have X personal insult claims, Y questions he refused to answer.. and so on, a visual, but perhaps not conclusive record of his Posting standard.
Of course in reality this would lead to more petty squabbles and insults and would require a round the clock dedicated moderator.I've only been here about a year, but already I see the futility of the whole thing. What do I care if people want to delude themselves about supernatural happenings, or evolution or abiogensis or 2000 year old books?
If it makes them happy well.. so be it.personally, I came here to explore, to question the xians, to understand why they believe what they believe (because.. honestly, I would love to have that comfort, the ability not to have to think on deep unthinkable things).what I have found is simply the most snide, arrogant, hateful, judgemental, pompous and most importantly.. frightened bunch of people I have ever had the misfortune to come into contact with. Every Xian on here, to me, is a stunning advertisement for agnosticism.every argument falls when rigorously pursued, and so it should, for that is what religion/faith is all about, it was designed to be untestable, to instill fear and oppression onto the unthinking masses, to gain control over 'lesser humans'. It appears to be still working.EVC is stagnant, the same old tripe gets churned up now and again, the same old paths get walked on, spat on, shat on. nothing new, no change, stuation normal./rant

Speaking of snobbery, who are these "unthinking masses"?

Saving grace

What truth do you mean?Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.

It may not be real common, but I think some people have been educated here. I for one learned most of what I know about evolution, and where to find out more about evolution, from a forum like this one. I'm thrilled about the opportunity to throw things out to scientists and informed people, and despite the fact that most people, on or off line, are not terribly open to truth, this sort of venue is indispensable for those that are.

Lots of people answer you. You probably get more answers than anybody else that posts. What are you complaining about? This is a discussion board. People express opinions and other people argue with them. As far as discussion boards go it's pretty open. Do you have any specific problems with it?A lot of the people here are pretty intelligent so people can't easily get away with talking nonsense. Is that what you mean by it being a snobbish clique?And what do you mean by, 'It's far too political'? It's clearly pro-evolution in purpose, but I can't see that it's propagandist about it. It allows pretty free rein to intelligent fundamentalists like Faith and iano. You wouldn't see many creationist sites allowing supporters of evolution such freedom.

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The true mystery of the world is the visible, not the invisible

Well there has to be determination of some threshold level of acceptability by someone, or it would just turn into a cluttered free-for-all. Probably, but that’s part of the challenge isn’t? Not just winning a debate but trying to provide the most understandable explanation of things? Where’s your competitive instinct? How is that different from the process of peer review in real science?
There have to be standards of performance and someone has to play referee.
I think it’s a fair replica of the real science world, imperfect though they both are. I’m not so sure. Futile if your purpose is to convert Christians back to an atheist world view, yes, but not if you get satisfaction from pointing out all the fallacies of their arguments and preventing them from flogging dogma as science to those who are here to actually learn something. So haven’t you learned anything in the process of your debating? I mean, I don’t have an image of chirstians much different from yours, but I could care less about their narrow-minded dogma. I am here to clarify what evolution is really about and what it is useful for to those who are interested in learning and have sincere questions. Also to address challenges to my own conceptual framework that may be posed by the more educated and intelligent of the membership. It is only a product of its members. If you feel it is stagnant, you are partly responsible as a member, or at least you are empowered to change that by introducing some new ideas.

Robin, this sounds like a big bunch of sour grapes you had for breakfast. Try a change of diet...

I call bullshit.I've answered your questions before and you just claim they are non-answers. And if they are answers you change the definition of a word you used or throw in words like "logically" or "technically", which removes actual meaning from your posts and makes it impossible to actually provide an answer.There's no problem with EvC.

Those who throughout history have been intimidated, frightened and bullied into conforming with the churches belief systems.The people who blindly follow what the churches teach, without a question simply because they are too afraid.for example: The grip the catholic church has had on society and government in Ireland.

saving grace?the fact that it was a rant doesn't mean I think it's not true.Edited by Creavolution, : edited for clarity

Regarding the original post:Proverbs 18:2 A fool finds no pleasure in understanding but delights in airing his own opinions.There are certainly some people who fall under this category. They completely skip over your main point to argue about what some word means (when a few seconds spent with websters makes it perfectly clear to the most casual observer).But I've also read some very interesting posts here and learned a tidbit or two (my educational background is not in biology).To RickJB's post:

quote:

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What truth do you mean?

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I like this question. It started me thinking. Scientists and theologians both are searching for the truth. They're just going about it differently. (This is not an invitation for one side to attack the other.... if you're having those urges just continue on... these aren't the droids you're looking for... move along.)

I know. But adding served to highlight 'ranting' assertion - which tends to attract more forgiving comment than 'plain' assertion - which attracts a more rigorous demand for evidence.Edited by iano, : typo

indeed, and the lack of interest a thread creates will determine it's suitability for debate.
I've seen some interesting looking topics rejected before, I've seen possible new contributors shot down in some very condecending manners before.
Put the topic out there, if it's crap it won't last long, if it goes OT that will be taken care of in the usual way, if it becomes abusive, it wil be shut down. when I mentiones school class attitude i was hinting at the snide little comments that appear too often, the ensueing insults, and the fingers in ears "lalala i can't hear you... it's my ball and I'm taking it home" behaviours. perhaps... as I said I'm not a scientist... but like I said above, if peer review is the aim, aren't all contributors here 'peers'? and as 'peers' we decide if a topic in worthy of reply. no replies->topic dies. this is kind of the school room attitude I mentioned above.. bit of pat yourself on the back mentality, don't you think? (no personal offence intended.. honestly) ok you got me there... I have learned, but I feel that the learning has been despite rather than because of the attitudes here, a lot of the time it's quite difficult to find useful information in a post here.