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Author | Topic: Why Atheists don't believe | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
iano Member (Idle past 1962 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
D'ya ever think of taking it up a notch RjB. Your putting down of Christianity..well... simplistic. You do know that some of the very best minds in the world have examined its claims in some depth and come to the conclusion it is true? This in itself doesn't make it true. But you seem to be closing the door before the horse has bolted.
And some of the very best minds in the world have examined its claims in some depth and concluded it is false. But at least the best minds did one thing. They examined it. Anybody can sit in the stands hollering and booing. But it takes a bit of balls to get into the game. Why Christianity if you haven't the time or inclination to check them all out? No reason perhaps except this quiet one. With all the worlds religions (if you do a cursory inspection) your eternal position is decided upon what YOU do. Pray to the west, go to church, be good, get your act together, meditate, go to a monastery, seek enlightenment etc etc Chrisitianity is the only faith system in which your eternal position is decided not by what you do but what God does FOR you. A small point of uniqueness but perhaps enough to figure out which game to get into. Should you ever.
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CK Member (Idle past 4149 days) Posts: 3221 Joined: |
quote: I thought that Blasphemy of the holy spirit was an unforgivable sin?
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jar Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
iano writes: John 15:18 springs to mind. Yet another example of how Christians drive folk away from Christianity. The John 15:18 defense. Reminds me of the songs the Christians sing on the bus and here on the board when they spout their intolerance:
We're right because We're right because We're right because We're right. We're right becauseWe're right because We're right because We're right. The folk that quotemine John 15:18 always seem to forget to read the whole thing, or go on to the beginning of John 16 where we find:
1"All this I have told you so that you will not go astray. 2They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God. 3They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me. 4I have told you this, so that when the time comes you will remember that I warned you. I did not tell you this at first because I was with you. This clearly is a reference to today's intolerant Christian Right and Fundamentalists. They are the ones who proclaim that certain people are not "True Christians", that only They know the will of GOD. Yes, it is Christians that drive folk away from Christianity. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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iano Member (Idle past 1962 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
1"All this I have told you so that you will not go astray. 2They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God. 3They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me. 4I have told you this, so that when the time comes you will remember that I warned you. I did not tell you this at first because I was with you. This clearly is a reference to today's intolerant Christian Right and Fundamentalists Clarity that has folk predicting the end of the world for the last 2000 years kind of clarity you mean?
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Your avatar is fighting its way through the jungle, but the enemy is us!
I agree with Jar that Christians drive people away from Christianity. Remember that IF the Truth is as we believe it to be, God Himself will draw all men unto Himself. Indeed, Philipians declares that He who began a good work in us....will be faithful to complete it! I would not worry about those who occasionally attack the Christian idea of truth...they don't understand what makes them so irate!You say its not your job to get them to believe....but it IS our job to be receivable because if they receive you, they will have a conduit to God. (Does that sound arrogant? If so, please slap me around thusly! )
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jar Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Clarity that has folk predicting the end of the world for the last 2000 years kind of clarity you mean? Yup, another good example. After they been wrong on just about every possible issue, from evolution to the flood to the conquest of Canaan to end times to prophecy to civil rights to the fall is it any wonder that atheists ignore Christians? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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iano Member (Idle past 1962 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
To be honest I haven't ever dwelled on this all that much. But now that you ask I'll try and fit it into a overarching understanding of how it is that "if man saved then God has saved/if man is lost then man has lost himself"
Its a good question for it aims at the root of the predestined/own choice paradox. My take: Man is born a sinner. Rejecting God out of hand and without thought. A slave to sin. A natural born sinner as it were. But he has a conscience. Conscience being (I take it you know your Bible) the action of the Holy Spirit on a man - aimed at convicting a man of his sin - the fact that he stands unrighteous before God. Thus, whilst a fish adrift on a raging sea of sin, there is a hook lodged in him. As a man his natural tendency is to fight and wriggle and squirm to free himself from that hook. This doesn't involve the man doing something as such. He does it naturally. He blasphemes the Holy Spirit in doing so. He rejects, naturally, the pull of the Holy Spirit on the line which binds him. (Could a blink of an eyelid be said to be a man consciously 'doing' something. Not really - its a natural reflex) But if a fish does nothing at all? Then it will be drawn to shore as sure as night follows day. And the motivation not to act naturally? It comes from God. He presents us with a reason not to act. Not to blaspheme the work of the Holy FisherMan. The senses feel the hook. They could act as they have always acted. Or they could do nothing. not respond to the call of nature. Not blink. When a man does nothing, he doesn't blapheme the Holy Spirit. For how can doing nothing at all blaspheme anyone?
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SuperNintendo Chalmers Member (Idle past 5855 days) Posts: 772 From: Bartlett, IL, USA Joined: |
But at least the best minds did one thing. They examined it. Anybody can sit in the stands hollering and booing. But it takes a bit of balls to get into the game. Why Christianity if you haven't the time or inclination to check them all out? No reason perhaps except this quiet one. With all the worlds religions (if you do a cursory inspection) your eternal position is decided upon what YOU do. Pray to the west, go to church, be good, get your act together, meditate, go to a monastery, seek enlightenment etc etc Have you ever seen the studies on correlation between intelligence and lack of religious belief? There is a reason that intelligence is correlated with a lack of religious belief; it doesn't take long for intelligent people to realize that most religions are ridiculous. (of course there are smart religious people as well, I don't mean to imply there aren't) One thing that I a lot of theists just don't get about atheists is that our lack of belief is just that. We place god on the same level as santa claus. It has little to do with morality or whatever (although I do think much of the "morality" preached by religion is actually evil)
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 755 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
Non-Christians are those who have rejected Gods attempt to save them. He calls all. All are welcome to come. Only our rejection can result in our being lost. So all the inhabitants of the Western Hemisphere prior to 1492 aren't "non-Christians?" How does that work, exactly?
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iano Member (Idle past 1962 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
Have you ever seen the studies on correlation between intelligence and lack of religious belief? There is a reason that intelligence is correlated with a lack of religious belief; it doesn't take long for intelligent people to realize that most religions are ridiculous. I wonder which are the ones which fell outside the remit of the 'most'
(of course there are smart religious people as well, I don't mean to imply there aren't) Which only goes to show that whatever the correlation, 'smarts' ain't the deciding factor. If more one 'smart' person and one 'stupid' believes then neither 'smarts' nor 'stupid' was the deciding factor in their believing. Which kind of figures with his words "I come to seek and save the lost (and presumably not the smart)"
One thing that I a lot of theists just don't get about atheists is that our lack of belief is just that. We place god on the same level as santa claus. The max. potential that Santa delivers is a Slaystation II game (at least down my way: did you know that you can have sex with a hooker on Grand Theft Auto - where X marks the spot?). God has the potential to deliver eternal life. If you want to coalesce the two then your choice. Rather weak it seems to me. Santa can only be less than us. God defines us.
It has little to do with morality or whatever Agreed..we have none to speak of (See the worldwide delivery schedule of Santa next Christ(*sigh*)mas
although I do think much of the "morality" preached by religion is actually evil I couldn't agree more. Edited by iano, : typos and tighten
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iano Member (Idle past 1962 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
No disrespect CG. But when your "I just dropped in" average sentence-per-post drops below a certain minimum I reserve the right to not reply
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SuperNintendo Chalmers Member (Idle past 5855 days) Posts: 772 From: Bartlett, IL, USA Joined: |
I wonder which are the ones which fell outside the remit of the 'most' I should have said all..... but Deism, Buddishm and the like (which may or may not be religions) aren't obviously ridiculous. Religiosity and intelligence - Wikipedia
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SuperNintendo Chalmers Member (Idle past 5855 days) Posts: 772 From: Bartlett, IL, USA Joined: |
The max. potential that Santa delivers is a Slaystation II game (at least down my way: did you know that you can have sex with a hooker on Grand Theft Auto - where X marks the spot?). God has the potential to deliver eternal life. If you want to coalesce the two then your choice. Rather weak it seems to me. Santa can only be less than us. God defines us. I can see you still don't understand at all. Maybe this will help..... Atheists see god/gods/etc/whatever the same way we see Q on Star Trek. And Q could actually make me omnipotent.
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iano Member (Idle past 1962 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
I'll leave it to the various protagonists to defend their case
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iano Member (Idle past 1962 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
Atheists see god/gods/etc/whatever the same way we see Q on Star Trek. And Q could actually make me omnipotent. But you know Q can do nothing of the sort. But you don't know in the same way about God. Atheism doesn't know anything. It is extreme agnosticism: I REALLY don't know...
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