Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,808 Year: 3,065/9,624 Month: 910/1,588 Week: 93/223 Day: 4/17 Hour: 1/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Why Atheists don't believe
fallacycop
Member (Idle past 5520 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 211 of 310 (312751)
05-17-2006 9:28 AM
Reply to: Message 131 by iano
05-16-2006 8:36 PM


iano writes:
No disrespect CG. But when your "I just dropped in" average sentence-per-post drops below a certain minimum I reserve the right to not reply
Lame excuse not to answer.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by iano, posted 05-16-2006 8:36 PM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 214 by iano, posted 05-17-2006 9:40 AM fallacycop has not replied

iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 212 of 310 (312752)
05-17-2006 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 207 by SuperNintendo Chalmers
05-17-2006 9:14 AM


Re: Q and the like
This ssntence is pure nonsensical rambling.
You mean this one. Nonsensical ramblings usually don't make any point or argument. They just (as our buddhist friends would say) ARE.
You can't dissect my model since you admitted you don't even understand all the terms used!
Your model was missing some vital componants if it was attempting to describe the biblical God. I could see it wouldn't work - but if you don't fancy fixing it then no skin off my nose.
You are definitely an RBL thinker (restricted binary logic)
Whats the alternative: there are no absolutes? How delightfully and fashionably post-modern!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by SuperNintendo Chalmers, posted 05-17-2006 9:14 AM SuperNintendo Chalmers has not replied

Larni
Member (Idle past 163 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 213 of 310 (312753)
05-17-2006 9:34 AM
Reply to: Message 209 by iano
05-17-2006 9:22 AM


Re: Q and the like
But but but...
We have evidence for tables.
We have no evidence for gods.
The bottom line is that the evidence exist only in your head. Not every one else's head.
Show anyone (anyone at all) a table and they will say:
"....yup, that there's one purdy looking table style table you got there...."
Show someone the sky and say:
"...my god is there..." and people say:
"..where?.."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by iano, posted 05-17-2006 9:22 AM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 215 by iano, posted 05-17-2006 9:44 AM Larni has replied

iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 214 of 310 (312754)
05-17-2006 9:40 AM
Reply to: Message 211 by fallacycop
05-17-2006 9:28 AM


Lame excuse not to answer.
You ever turn the activity meter red when batting against a multitude FC? No? Well, come back when you do and we'll pop a cap on a beer or two and have a laugh at your youthful (postwise) exhuberance.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by fallacycop, posted 05-17-2006 9:28 AM fallacycop has not replied

iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 215 of 310 (312755)
05-17-2006 9:44 AM
Reply to: Message 213 by Larni
05-17-2006 9:34 AM


Re: Q and the like
The bottom line is that the evidence exist only in your head. Not every one else's head.
Could you tell me, ultimately, where does the evidence for anything exist. Yup. In your own head...
Surgically your senses are all chopped off NOW.
No sight, smell, touch, taste, feeling. You have become a self-with-a-brain. Do you cease to exist? No. Any empirical evidence to prop that notion up? No. The evidence is all in your own head? Yup. You don't need anyone else to support your knowledge. You know it - because you know it. You will know it for as long as you live.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by Larni, posted 05-17-2006 9:34 AM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 217 by SuperNintendo Chalmers, posted 05-17-2006 9:47 AM iano has replied
 Message 218 by RickJB, posted 05-17-2006 9:51 AM iano has not replied
 Message 220 by Larni, posted 05-17-2006 9:55 AM iano has replied

RickJB
Member (Idle past 4990 days)
Posts: 917
From: London, UK
Joined: 04-14-2006


Message 216 of 310 (312756)
05-17-2006 9:47 AM
Reply to: Message 209 by iano
05-17-2006 9:22 AM


Re: Q and the like
iano writes:
You see table, Larni sees table - I don't see table. Simply because I am not in the same place that you two guys are. You show me pictures but they could be airbrushed for all I know. I can trust you or not trust you when you say "its a table"
**Sigh** You're playing games Iano, you know clearly what I am getting at.
So, again:-
Myself, you and Larni are in a room.
You see a table. I see a table. Larni sees a table. We percieve a table.
You "know" God. I don't. Larni "knows" another God. Whose perception is the "right" one? How can we tell?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by iano, posted 05-17-2006 9:22 AM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 221 by iano, posted 05-17-2006 10:04 AM RickJB has replied

SuperNintendo Chalmers
Member (Idle past 5833 days)
Posts: 772
From: Bartlett, IL, USA
Joined: 12-27-2005


Message 217 of 310 (312757)
05-17-2006 9:47 AM
Reply to: Message 215 by iano
05-17-2006 9:44 AM


Re: Q and the like
Could you tell me, ultimately, where does the evidence for anything exist. Yup. In your own head...
100% false.
There are MANY kinds of evidence that can be examined and investigated by others. We can both examine a rock, a soil sample, etc, etc

This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by iano, posted 05-17-2006 9:44 AM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 224 by iano, posted 05-17-2006 10:11 AM SuperNintendo Chalmers has replied

RickJB
Member (Idle past 4990 days)
Posts: 917
From: London, UK
Joined: 04-14-2006


Message 218 of 310 (312758)
05-17-2006 9:51 AM
Reply to: Message 215 by iano
05-17-2006 9:44 AM


Re: Q and the like
iano writes:
No sight, smell, touch, taste, feeling. You have become a self-with-a-brain. Do you cease to exist? No. Any empirical evidence to prop that notion up? No. The evidence is all in your own head? Yup. You don't need anyone else to support your knowledge. You know it - because you know it. You will know it for as long as you live.
You will exist as you only because you will be operating with the empirical knowledge you gained when you HAD perception!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by iano, posted 05-17-2006 9:44 AM iano has not replied

iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 219 of 310 (312759)
05-17-2006 9:51 AM
Reply to: Message 199 by crashfrog
05-17-2006 8:55 AM


Sorry Crash. Not now. I have my hands full enough as it is. But it was a bloody brilliant post idea generator (was it a year ago -my...) Have always been kind of percolating it over in my mind. A "How to find God without empiricism" thread or something

This message is a reply to:
 Message 199 by crashfrog, posted 05-17-2006 8:55 AM crashfrog has not replied

Larni
Member (Idle past 163 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 220 of 310 (312761)
05-17-2006 9:55 AM
Reply to: Message 215 by iano
05-17-2006 9:44 AM


Re: Q and the like
As I have said countless times....your existance and your total faith (yes faith) in your reality and existance is NOT linked in anyway with a belief in the divine.
You draw parallel where none exist.
This is why I don't believe in gods. The arguements used to sustain said beliefs are full of logical errors.
You claim that if you can be sure you exist then you can be sure god exist.
Rubbish.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by iano, posted 05-17-2006 9:44 AM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 228 by iano, posted 05-17-2006 10:35 AM Larni has replied

iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 221 of 310 (312764)
05-17-2006 10:04 AM
Reply to: Message 216 by RickJB
05-17-2006 9:47 AM


Re: Q and the like
I'm sorry RjB. I don't get your point.
You place myself, larni and your good self in the same table-containing room. We all look and we see a table. Then you place myself, larni and yourself in different rooms. We look and see what each of those different rooms contain - if anything.
We cannot prove that the rooms contain that which they are claimed to contain unless we walk into them ourselves and have a look.
All you have here is someone (me) who shouts over the wall from an adjoining room "God is in here - come have a look" You don't have to believe me to come and have a look. You don't have to come and have a look at all. For empiricism to work, one has to go have a look. You can bring me to a table but you can't make me open my eyes if I don't want to.
How can we tell?
Go look is how you tell.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by RickJB, posted 05-17-2006 9:47 AM RickJB has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by CK, posted 05-17-2006 10:10 AM iano has not replied
 Message 225 by Larni, posted 05-17-2006 10:16 AM iano has replied
 Message 226 by RickJB, posted 05-17-2006 10:19 AM iano has not replied

fallacycop
Member (Idle past 5520 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 222 of 310 (312765)
05-17-2006 10:10 AM
Reply to: Message 183 by riVeRraT
05-17-2006 7:55 AM


IMPORTANT DIFFERENCE
riVeRraT writes:
IF you love your mother, or anything, do you need emprical evidence to prove it? Or do you just know that you love something?
Loving your own mother is a statement about one's mind internal state. it needs no outside empirical evidence. God's existance is a statement about the nature of the world outside of the mind. It requires empirical evidence.
If, for instance, you say that you know in your heart that god exists, this is only a statement of the internal state of your heart(Mind), and needs no empirical evidence. That unfortunately does not translate into god having to exist out-there in the real world. The crux of the difference is that nobody (that I know of) expects love to one's mother to exist out-there outside of that one's mind.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by riVeRraT, posted 05-17-2006 7:55 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 237 by riVeRraT, posted 05-17-2006 6:27 PM fallacycop has not replied

CK
Member (Idle past 4127 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 223 of 310 (312766)
05-17-2006 10:10 AM
Reply to: Message 221 by iano
05-17-2006 10:04 AM


Low quality cirucular answer.
You say you don't have time to answer Crashfrog's query - yet you wish to continue to edge around the subject with rather weak analogues.
quote:
All you have here is someone (me) who shouts over the wall from an adjoining room "God is in here - come have a look" You don't have to believe me to come and have a look.
But most of us have been for a look - the room is empty, there is nothing there.
Instead of wasting our time with those low-quality circular answers - how about having a decent stab at providing a case of the alternative you wish to suggest to empirical evidence?
Start a separate thread articulating your case.
Edited by CK, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by iano, posted 05-17-2006 10:04 AM iano has not replied

iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 224 of 310 (312767)
05-17-2006 10:11 AM
Reply to: Message 217 by SuperNintendo Chalmers
05-17-2006 9:47 AM


Re: Q and the like
SuperNC writes:
You are definitely an RBL thinker (restricted binary logic)
SuperNC writes:
100% false.
You supping from the RBL bottle too SNC?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by SuperNintendo Chalmers, posted 05-17-2006 9:47 AM SuperNintendo Chalmers has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 239 by SuperNintendo Chalmers, posted 05-17-2006 8:05 PM iano has not replied

Larni
Member (Idle past 163 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 225 of 310 (312769)
05-17-2006 10:16 AM
Reply to: Message 221 by iano
05-17-2006 10:04 AM


Re: Q and the like
What about people who have looked for gods (like myself) and found nothing but you in a room pointing at nothing (metaphorically speaking)?
I have looked long and hard a seen bugger all. If you see something when I see nothing I can only conclude that you are deluded.
This does not mean I am definitely right to conclude that, in the very same way that you are not definitely right to conclude a divivnity.
I entertain an iota of doubt that any conclusion you or I have is correct.
You (it appears) do not doubt in this way.
Tha is your error.
Where is your self correcting mechanism?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by iano, posted 05-17-2006 10:04 AM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 230 by iano, posted 05-17-2006 11:05 AM Larni has not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024