Why Atheists don't believe

This post is long, so grab a beer and enjoy the read Agreed, at least until one of us sees a bonafied miracle, where there is no chance of subjectivity.I have heard of one from a good friend, but I have yet to see the paper work on it. Yes, I understand your point, but there are instances where I have seen the whole room filled with people, and the spirit started moving, and everyone was on the floor, even by-standers who weren't even paying attention to what was going on. Then a whole bunch of people were converted at the same time.I have witnessed, and been a part of some other unexplainable stuff, that I have gone over in this forum before. Possibly because no 2 people are alike. I know little about it. When I ask my leaders about it, they say that it is an imitation from the devil. I am not usually happy with that answer, because I can't prove it. Yes, I thought that way too.Good point about the little "c" and big "C". I understand that what is not all that important, you can believe by faith that it is true, but if you had to bet money on it, you know that even the little "c" you would need evidence for.This seems to be a general way of thinking for atheists, that was the claim I made in another thread, that atheists really don't believe anything, and that is what spawned this thread. Well, it is not impossible to evaluate, if you knew me. There was a change that took place. People around me noticed a even a physical change. Everyone said I looked ten years younger, except for one guy, who said I wasn't me, but I was my son. (I'm my own grandpa?)You can ask me any questions about it you wish, I am more than happy to answer.It is way to much to go over in this thread perhaps, but let me ask you, just how much subjective evidence towards one thing does it take to start to become objective? Maybe never, but if you started to factor odds in, the odds would be very slim, that it wasn't God.Also, if I say "I love you" that statement is subjective, but is it only subjective to you, or is it subjective to me also? I mean I know what I feel, so to me it's objective.Which brings me to this. If I told you 2+2=4, you would know that it is true. Knowing something is true, is a feeling. I guess if we ponder it enough, there is the possibility that 2+2 does not =4, but the feeling of truth is still there. Well times that feeling of truth you had about that statement by a factor of 1000, and you start to get the idea of the feeling I had. It was then I instantly understood what is meant when they refer to the Holy Spirit as the spirit of truth.Like John said, when you know the truth, it will set you free. And it did.There was other feelings involved too.I felt the gifts of the Holy Spirit in me, and instantly I was wiser, and more sensitive to my surroundings, and peoples spirits. I instantly wanted to forgive everyone that ever hurt me, because I knew it didn't matter anymore, God would take care of it. (I only have a handful of people that I needed to forgive, because by nature I am a forgiving person)I just found a letter that I wrote about an experience I had shortly after, I will let you guys read it. I wrote it over 2 years ago, just around Easter.

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To fully explain what it was like, I might have to preach a little to ya.
I don't know what your religious beliefs are, or how much you know about God. I will try to simplify it as best I can, because it was more than just a feeling.

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I won't write the scriptures in here, you can go here to read it:
BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 150 versions and 50 languages.
I was taught to refer to scriptures when I can, so that you know I'm not just talking out of my butt. There is a form on that web page, just put the scripture # in, and you can read.

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I have been practicing with the band for 3 weeks. I don't really know the songs so I have to learn them on the spot.
The thing is, on Sunday, the band leader prays, and sometimes adds songs to the list, that I don't know.

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I was also asked to perform a song on Good Friday. It had to be about the death of Jesus. I really don't know too many religious songs, so with the help of others we picked out the Old Rugged Cross, which is a church hymn written 1913.

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Well let me tell you that this kind of music is not my style at all. But in these verses it speaks using your gifts for God:
Romans 12
1 Corinthians 12:4 , 14:12
So I figure that even though I don't like the song, I will use my gifts to praise God.

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Good Friday was a Tenebre service. It is very dramatic. There are several performances. With each successive performs, a light and a set of candles go out, until the whole church is in complete darkness, and then you leave without talking until you get to your car. (weird right?)

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I was only supposed to do that quick song, but when I was doing the sound check for the keys, people started arriving. So I started playing prophetic music (music that just comes to you like improvising, but you do it in the name of God) When the director of the whole event heard this, she said keep playing it for the people to walk in. Then she grabbed a program and started highlighting about 12 parts and said for me to play prophetically basically through the whole thing.
So having never played before for a church, there I was center stage, the only one on stage, and playing through the whole thing, prophetically.

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I had prayed to God before going for him to remove my stage fright and let me play to the best of my ability. I guess I didn't mention that I only meant the one song, lol.

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But it was good, it loosened me up. There even was a time when the sound system failed and a dancers music didn't come up, so I just played for 10 mins while they fixed it, lol.

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Let me tell you about this song. I had not played it correctly once in the two weeks I practiced it. I played it for the people in church, in rehearsal, but I didn't do a very good job. Still they had faith in me I guess. Or in God's ability to make me play it right. I only started to improvise on it, and hour before church at home.

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When it came time to play the song, I got nervous, for about 3 seconds, then all of a sudden the song started flowing out of me. On the second verse I really went off on it. while I was going off on it, I was filled with the Holy Spirit, and it felt like I was floating off the chair. My whole body was filled with a great energy. (sounds nutz?) When I was finished, I looked up and the Pastors wife was crying her eyes out, and a few others too. I felt tremendous, like I did what I was supposed to do.

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All my life I was looking for God, for some proof that he exists. For some reason the holy Spirit, was never taught to me that well. But it is so important in understanding God, and how I felt. I was filled with the Holy spirit many times this past couple months, but not to the extent when I was playing.
Acts 1:4
If all things are in place, you too can feel the Holy Spirit. It is greater than any drug or drink. It is Truth in its ultimate form. You will understand it, because it will come from inside of your own body, and you won't deny yourself.

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Then on Easter Sunday I got baptized and then I was asked to play with the band. I was a little lost because they added some songs I didn't know, and the keyboard there, messed up on a song. But at one point when I was playing what I knew, I looked out at the congregation, and it was awesome. I saw people dancing in their seats, people crying their eyes out, people singing, and raising their hands to the Lord. I was a little to busy trying to do everything right with the band to really feel what was going on. But the amazing thing was that I wasn't nervous at all. This is coming from someone who has been nervous in front of crowds for the last 34 years of my 38 year old life. ( in my mind I am 13 still).

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This week the guitarist isn't going to be there, and we are going to use 2 keyboards. We got some great stuff that we practiced. I am going to try and make a tape and some how get the song to you. If it comes out good.

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Peace.

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As much as I want everyone to meet Jesus, I don't wish that scenerio on you.Some of the people closest to me in my life, did not understamd what I went through, but as I explain it to them, they are starting to understand. Plus I made it a point not to change who I was in their lives, but to make it better, by loving more. Last thing I want to be is all Holy, holy, Mr. righteous.In trying to do this, you get a clear picture of the struggle between good and evil, and your mind is a battle field. But if you turn to the Lord for answers, it all works out. Thanks for believing It wouldn't need support from another believer
But even that is subjective.

Yes, I know that. You don't know me, but I do not fall into that category, you'll have to take my word on it. That is why I humble myself, and say it was either the day I went crazy, or the day I met God.The most important thing about my experience with God, was that it happened when I was by myself.

I wouldn't say it's all the leaders, but I have heard that answer. As far as open minded churches, I would say this one ranks high up there. Where else can you go and see your Pastor ride his harley into the church and arounf the congregation for a small group kick-off on Sunday morning, while we play born to be wild? I can't really speak for muslims and their faith. The ones I know are pretty cool about their faith, and not all that religious anyway. Even the hasidic jews I know and work for, we have conversations about faith and God.What I find is that dealing with someone you would think is an ok person, you find someone, no matter the religion, even if they are atheist, are people that follow their hearts. Of course there is always some residual dogma, even for an atheist (atheistic dogma, lol) and I have found people like this to be more "Christian" than most Christians.This only confirms to me what Jesus did for us, the vail being torn, and the temple is us now. Doesn't matter what label we have on the outside, but what is inside our hearts is what matters. God is there, whether you recognize Him or not.We are by-products of our surroundings, and how can christianity have a chance when there are so many untrue Christians. People in this forum will cite this and that about Christianity, but rarely have anything to say about Jesus directly. Usually if they do, it is easy to tell how confused they are about it, and it's really hatred towards the churches, and not Jesus Himself.An interesting statistic, if all the church members in the US tithed, there would be enough money to feed alll the starving people in the US, and have a surplus. So where does that leave us?Maybe someone like you is more Christian than me, but you don't know it? My Pastor agrees with me, but won't say it out loud to everyone, because some people just won't get it, and think he is a heritic.In short, it's about your heart. Maybe when God looks down at us, he doesn't even see all the religions.

Are you sure, or did you take what I meant out of context?They are both subjective feelings to others, but not to yourself.If your going to start making exact comparisons like that, then you have a lot of work to do, and many statements to correct from everyone here.

What about the bible?It gives instruction on how to "meet" God. They seem to have worked for me, and enlightened me enough so that I can see clearly to the truth.Did I mention also that in an instant, I understood about 80% more of the bible, once I felt what I believe to be the Holy Spirit? Everything became so clear.

Thanks Peace and love.

Brenna, I am working on it.
I have been placed in a church, and allowed to become part of the leadership for a reason.The church recognizes that the way church has always been done, is not working anymore. People are smart these days, and probably more in touch with the temple that is them.We are an experience generation, and people want to feel something real.If Jesus os truth, and our bodies a temple, then no matter what, there will always be a way to get in touch with that truth.I am working with the Pastors son, a youth pastor, and we are trying to change things, but it is dangerous groun, operating in a "forerunner" spirit.But in order for the church to work, then it must be relavent to todays world, and it must love, and be part of the community. Forget about the one Holy man with all the answer, we are in this together, and we all have much to learn. Thanks for helping me learn sometimes.

Well that really has nothing to do with evidence does it?I can say with authority that, yes, a good percentage of atheist do not believe in stuff without evidence, at least of some sort.

The real world is just that....real. Based on the evidence, this is a perfectly viable thing to believe in. You have collected enough evidence in your life about the "real world", and your loved one to have no reason to doubt her. Your belief that she is going to do what she says she is doing is based on evidence, both objective, and subjective, not 100% faith.If things were not adding up, her coming home late, weird phone calls, then based on that evidence, you might doubt her. Either way, it's all based on evidence, and the real world, and not some fantasy myth. Based on the evidence of the conversation, you can choose to doubt them or not. If put on the stand about the conversation, your logical answer would be that I was told by so and so, that he went on a vacation to Spain. I have no reason to doubt him, but I have no evidence that he did go there. That is a perfectly viable assumption about the trip, and it's all based on the evidence.You believe with 100% certainty that the conversation happened, but you do not believe with 100% certainty that he actually went. This only matters when it affects you, and you are asked what your honest assessment of the situation is. You would never say I believe with 100% faith that he went, would you? Given todays world (or any other day) why would you believe with 100% certainty that the chicken was organic. Even I do not look at the chicken and say it's organic with 100% certainty. I say I hope it is what they say it is.It's like the fortune in a fortune cookie that says, that wasn't chiken. Then you've never been to Puerto Rico. I have never received proper direction from anyone there. It seems to be a joke to send people in the completely wrong direction. Either that or there is too much pride to actually admit something they don't know.Either way, your saying that you believe the directions that were given to you are 100% correct? Will you drive away from that person knowing 100% that you will arrive at the proper destination? OR will you be driving with an uncertainty, and hoping that person wasn't a flake and sent you 20 mins. out of your way?Or are you going to just try them out to see where it takes you, because at the moment you have no other choice. If you arrive in the proper place, then you can say, hey that person was right.You present all these cases that lead me to believe you are the kind of person that takes many things on faith. But not God, because it is just so ridiculus, and far fetched. But I am sure that if I questioned you, or if you were put on the stand, then the truth of your experience will come out. The truth is what matters or not. The truth of what you actually believe in will come out, especially in a debate here.The point is, there is no reason to question any of this stuff, because it just doesn't matter. That doesn't mean you believe it with 100% certainty.This is the exact reason I continue to question my faith, the church, and the people that go there. There are aspects of my faith that I do believe with 100% certainty, solely based on faith, and it matters in my life, because it gives my life direction. I am not waiting to see where it is going to take me, I already know where I am going. Unlike the person who gave you directions, I am sure you would drive away from them and say, I hope I am going in the right direction.I am not sure where everyone else is going, and I do not believe anything anyone tells me about where others are going. I am just hoping and asking God all the time, that everyone will go to heaven, and all will be revealed to them, and then we all can have a big party one day.

If it was just a feeling, I would doubt it more. I was only giving one example of what drives my faith. There are many more aspects of it, right here in this thread. I am not sure what you mean by that.

Which part of this statement has to do with evidence?

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When my boss says that we need five more pizzas made, I make them, I don't go to check if we are actually out of pizzas; I just do it.

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The part that his boss says He needs 5 pizzas?
Or the part were the boss says he is out of pizzas?We are assuming that the boss needs 5 pizzas because he is actually out of them, based on the statement.

Those 2 statements conflict with each other.Why do you need addtional evidence if you already take it on faith?Maybe it is because you really don't believe it 100%. I am not sure I believe that. I do believe that.

RickJB writes: Well put. I agree. That's the difference.CK writes: ALmost another contradictory statement. You don't get evidence...why?
Still, there is no denying that the evidence can be easily optained, and IS part of the equation.Nosy writes: This is about the only confusing thing I ever read from you.I think what you are trying to say is that there are different levels of subject matter in life, and some require authentication, and some don't, they can be taken on faith.But that is not entirely true, as the evidence can be had if needed, so it is not on faith alone.If you believe something, you either believe it, or you don't. Most of the time, we aren't going to analize things to that depth, because it isn't required for day to day living.Your right about trust.schraf writes I agree.Invictus writes: I agree on the case by case. I think I should have limited it to things that really matter, and better defined the question. The authority comes from them, not me. Just read the responses, and draw your own conclusion.But your right about the word "stuff." It is a blurry definition.

What does all that have to do with the price of gas?We are not trying to convince atheists that there is a God in this thread.