Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 13/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Parables 101
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 91 of 229 (310842)
05-10-2006 6:52 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Phat
05-10-2006 6:07 PM


Re: The Man, the Mission and the Lesson
Phat writes:
I view God as my rescuer and reedemer and not a good teacher who expects me to do it all.
In the parable, the Samaritan didn't "do it all". He only did one little thing. It cost him a little time and money, but it was nothing that any other passer-by could not have done.
Instead of thinking of God as your "rescuer", think of all the times that you have been rescued by ordinary human "Samaritans". Then go out and be the Samaritan.

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Phat, posted 05-10-2006 6:07 PM Phat has not replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 92 of 229 (310846)
05-10-2006 6:59 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by ringo
05-08-2006 2:06 PM


Re: The Man, the Mission and the Lesson
Dying is easy
Spoken like well... like..how you would expect Lee van Cleef to speak.
Its only an avatar Ringo, don't fall head over heels for your own PR there Bud...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by ringo, posted 05-08-2006 2:06 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 93 of 229 (312403)
05-16-2006 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 89 by ringo
05-08-2006 2:06 PM


How about the Shrewed Manager?
NIV writes:
Luke 16:1-9-- Jesus told his disciples: "There was a rich man whose manager was accused of wasting his possessions. So he called him in and asked him, 'What is this I hear about you? Give an account of your management, because you cannot be manager any longer.'
"The manager said to himself, 'What shall I do now? My master is taking away my job. I'm not strong enough to dig, and I'm ashamed to beg- I know what I'll do so that, when I lose my job here, people will welcome me into their houses.'
"So he called in each one of his master's debtors. He asked the first, 'How much do you owe my master?'
"'Eight hundred gallons of olive oil,' he replied.
"The manager told him, 'Take your bill, sit down quickly, and make it four hundred.'
"Then he asked the second, 'And how much do you owe?'
"'A thousand bushels of wheat,' he replied.
"He told him, 'Take your bill and make it eight hundred.'
"The master commended the dishonest manager because he had acted shrewdly. For the people of this world are more shrewd in dealing with their own kind than are the people of the light. I tell you, use worldly wealth to gain friends for yourselves, so that when it is gone, you will be welcomed into eternal dwellings.
Use worldly wealth to gain friends for yourselves???
Is this like bribing folks into Heaven?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by ringo, posted 05-08-2006 2:06 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by ringo, posted 05-16-2006 3:26 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 94 of 229 (312501)
05-16-2006 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by Phat
05-16-2006 10:45 AM


Re: How about the Shrewed Manager?
I look at parables as lessons that draw parallels between our relationship with God and our relationships with people.
Here, we are God's servants. He tells us that He is not happy with our performance and - in His best imitation of Donald Trump - He says, "You're fired!"
In order to cut our losses, we buddy up to the other people who owe Him. Without our employer/employee relationship with God, at least we'll have good old human relationships to fall back on.
But strangely enough, He tells us that we've done wisely. Cultivating human relationships - doing unto others - is what God wants us to do.
I have always said that God's laws are for our benefit, not His. If we love our neighbours as ourselves, we are loving God.
It is better to pray in your own closet than to bray "Lord! Lord!" in public. It is better to give what little you have than to brag about the bags and bags of gold you give - i.e. how valuable you are to God.
The parable simply confirms that by making friends with our fellow man, we are doing the work of God.

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by Phat, posted 05-16-2006 10:45 AM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by jaywill, posted 05-24-2006 7:26 AM ringo has replied
 Message 104 by jaywill, posted 05-25-2006 9:42 PM ringo has replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 95 of 229 (314820)
05-24-2006 7:26 AM
Reply to: Message 94 by ringo
05-16-2006 3:26 PM


Re: How about the Shrewed Manager?
It is better to pray in your own closet than to bray "Lord! Lord!" in public. It is better to give what little you have than to brag about the bags and bags of gold you give - i.e. how valuable you are to God.
Why then did Jesus pray in public on a number of occasions? Particularly in John 17 and John 12?
How do we know that your objection of saying "Lord, Lord" in public is not just your reluctance to confess before men that Jesus Christ is your Lord?
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by ringo, posted 05-16-2006 3:26 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by ringo, posted 05-24-2006 11:40 AM jaywill has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 96 of 229 (314874)
05-24-2006 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 95 by jaywill
05-24-2006 7:26 AM


Re: How about the Shrewed Manager?
jaywill writes:
Why then did Jesus pray in public on a number of occasions?
I said, "It is better to pray in your own closet...." - I didn't say it is always wrong to pray in public. Jesus, being the Son of God, knew when the occasion was appropriate.
How do we know that your objection of saying "Lord, Lord" in public is not just your reluctance to confess before men that Jesus Christ is your Lord?
You don't know, and you don't need to know. This is not the "Judging Ringo" forum.
So, what does any of that have to do with the parable?

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by jaywill, posted 05-24-2006 7:26 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by jaywill, posted 05-24-2006 11:19 PM ringo has replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 97 of 229 (315033)
05-24-2006 11:19 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by ringo
05-24-2006 11:40 AM


Re: How about the Shrewed Manager?
I said, "It is better to pray in your own closet...." - I didn't say it is always wrong to pray in public. Jesus, being the Son of God, knew when the occasion was appropriate.
I think that Jesus was teaching that if one was tempted to be a showoff he should pray privately and in secret. Then the Father who sees in secret would reward such a one.
I think the point is for one to go against his natural religious tendency to showoff before men.
The whole church prayed in public in the book of Acts. And those prayers were heard by God an answered in a mighty way. There is something beyond mere private and individual spirituality in the Christian church. Some prayer should be corporate and in the presence of others in harmony.
Paul also taught that in the church meeting prayers should be accompanied by a reinforcing "Amen" from the congregation. Such prayers are public and not in the closet:
"What then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray also with the mind ... Otherwise if you bless with the spirit, how shall he who fills the place of the unlearned [in tongues] say the Amen at your giving of thanks, since he does not know what you are saying? (1 Cor. 14:15,16)
Above giving thanks in a prayer meeting is public so that some may give the "Amen" to what the prayer is praying.
You don't know, and you don't need to know. This is not the "Judging Ringo" forum.
Neither is it a judge those who "bray ... Lord, Lord" forum. Right? That was your way of rediculing those who call "Lord, Lord, Lord Jesus". That was your judgment, to imply that such are jackasses.
So you get a taste of your own medicine.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by ringo, posted 05-24-2006 11:40 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by ringo, posted 05-25-2006 12:07 AM jaywill has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 98 of 229 (315045)
05-25-2006 12:07 AM
Reply to: Message 97 by jaywill
05-24-2006 11:19 PM


Re: How about the Shrewed Manager?
jaywill writes:
That was your way of rediculing those who call "Lord, Lord, Lord Jesus".
No, that was my way of quoting Jesus:
quote:
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
So, what does any of that have to do with the parable?

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by jaywill, posted 05-24-2006 11:19 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by jaywill, posted 05-25-2006 1:29 PM ringo has replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 99 of 229 (315133)
05-25-2006 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by ringo
05-25-2006 12:07 AM


Re: How about the Shrewed Manager?
No, that was my way of quoting Jesus:
No, that was your way of saying that people who call "Lord, Lord" are braying jackasses. Instead of admitting it and perhaps apologizing you're now drawing attention away from your crase attitude to a Bible verse.
Your contempt is showing for people who call Jesus Lord. The teaching of Jesus in your hands becomes a twisted tool to redicule the disciples of Jesus who call Him Lord.
So, what does any of that have to do with the parable?
It is of course good to quickly refer back to the topic. But I think it is kind of sneaky to get your insults in and then as a defense refer everyone back to the topic. Don't you think that is a little sneaky way of poisoning the well?
The Lord's teaching about those calling "Lord, Lord" and not doing the Father's will is not a parable but a plain teaching. One day He will tell them that they were lawless. They will lose the reward of the reigning with Christ in His millennial kingdom. The teaching does not mean that they will lose eternal redemption. For everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
In general Matthew's gospel is about the government of God. Repenting for the kingdom is repenting for not being under the government of God.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by ringo, posted 05-25-2006 12:07 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by ringo, posted 05-25-2006 2:36 PM jaywill has replied
 Message 206 by iano, posted 11-08-2010 7:33 AM jaywill has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 100 of 229 (315148)
05-25-2006 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by jaywill
05-25-2006 1:29 PM


Enlightened self-interest
jaywill writes:
For everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
On the contrary:
quote:
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Now, the TOPIC here is the parable of "The Shrewd Manager". Removing all extraneous details and speculations from the story, we have:
  1. The servant acted in his own self-interest.
  2. The master said that the servant had acted wisely.
If the master represents The Master - i.e. God - and the servant represents all of us, then the lesson of the parable is that God wants us to act in our own (collective) self-interest. He wants us to do unto others as we would have them do unto us.
Let's continue beyond Phat's reference:
quote:
Luk 16:10 He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.
If we don't treat each other right, how can we treat God right?
quote:
Luk 16:11 If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches?
Why would God reward us if we don't reward each other?
quote:
Luk 16:12 And if ye have not been faithful in that which is another man's, who shall give you that which is your own?

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by jaywill, posted 05-25-2006 1:29 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by iano, posted 05-25-2006 2:49 PM ringo has replied
 Message 103 by jaywill, posted 05-25-2006 9:34 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied
 Message 105 by jaywill, posted 05-25-2006 9:44 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 101 of 229 (315150)
05-25-2006 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by ringo
05-25-2006 2:36 PM


Re: Enlightened self-interest
calls upon...
on the contrary ....saith unto
On the contrary Ringo?
Calling upon someones name is not the same thing as saying unto them face to face. Your mixing things up a little here. The devil is in the detail - literally - causing you to see them as the same thing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by ringo, posted 05-25-2006 2:36 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by ringo, posted 05-25-2006 2:57 PM iano has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 102 of 229 (315153)
05-25-2006 2:57 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by iano
05-25-2006 2:49 PM


Re: Enlightened self-interest
iano writes:
Calling upon someones name is not the same thing as saying unto them face to face.
That's not the topic, but if you look at what I actually said in Message 94, maybe we can discuss it in the appropriate venue.
Edit: speling
Edited by Ringo, : No reason given.

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by iano, posted 05-25-2006 2:49 PM iano has not replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 103 of 229 (315201)
05-25-2006 9:34 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by ringo
05-25-2006 2:36 PM


Re: Enlightened self-interest
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Ringo, that is concerning entering into the kingdom of the heavens.
You are making the assumption that in Matthew's gospel entering into the kingdom of the heavens is the same as receiving eternal redemption. But one can be saved as to eternal life and not be rewarded with entering into the manifestation of the kingdom of the heavens as a reward in the millennial kingdom.
So I say again, the New Testament says that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved. They may not be rewarded with entering into the kingdom of the heavens in the millennial age.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by ringo, posted 05-25-2006 2:36 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 104 of 229 (315203)
05-25-2006 9:42 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by ringo
05-16-2006 3:26 PM


Re: How about the Shrewed Manager?
Ringo,
It is better to pray in your own closet than to bray "Lord! Lord!" in public. It is better to give what little you have than to brag about the bags and bags of gold you give - i.e. how valuable you are to God.
What does that have to do with the wise steward who made friends?
The parable simply confirms that by making friends with our fellow man, we are doing the work of God.
So what does that have to do with praying in the closet?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by ringo, posted 05-16-2006 3:26 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by ringo, posted 05-25-2006 10:25 PM jaywill has replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 105 of 229 (315204)
05-25-2006 9:44 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by ringo
05-25-2006 2:36 PM


Re: Enlightened self-interest
Now, the TOPIC here is the parable of "The Shrewd Manager". Removing all extraneous details and speculations from the story, we have:
The servant acted in his own self-interest.
The master said that the servant had acted wisely.
Agreed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by ringo, posted 05-25-2006 2:36 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024