Atheism is a belief (Why Atheists don't believe part 2)

Do you really think you made your point any better just by changing the word red for the word sunset?
That doesn`t change anything. It`s still possible to explain to a blind person what a sunset is. It is still impossible to explai the feeling that a sunset and its beauty gives us. The former is objective while the latter is subjective, just like your feeling of a godly presence is subjective. AS IT SHOULD BE, if the word faith is to be meaningfull at all.

Like I said before purple.Calling atheism a belief is like calling off a TV channel

that's a very good analogy. bravo.in response to sidelined. i don't like the bald anaolgy. bald is so negative in our society. however, having the tv off is wonderful. it keeps me from getting headaches.Edited by brennakimi, : No reason given.

Well that's a relatively easy one coming from you Iano.
The actual definition of the word subjective is pretty well understood. It seems that you are trying to use it in a completely inappropriate way. If you want something to be classified as objective then the first thing you have to do is to show that it exists. That is right there in the dictionary definition or is it that dictionaries are too "scientifiky" for you?
To show that it exists, you have to, guess what... That's right prove itSunsets
Again not really a problem.
Even a blind person can feel the sun on his face and can feel it gradually diminishing as night time sets in.
He can hear the crickets start to chirp in the darkness and the croaking of the frogs and the myriad other nigh time sounds. He hears and feels this in a 24 hour cycle so he easily recognizes the pattern and wonders about it.
Then he can read all the hundreds of thousands of brail books that describe the physics of the solar system and the way the earth spins on its axis.
It is pitifully easy to prove the sunset to a blind man. Blind does not mean stupid.Now if you were to ask me to prove it to a deaf, dumb, blind man in a lifelong coma then it might be a different proposition. But then it is arguable whether anything at all exists for this poor guy. He wouldn't even have a framework to form dreams..... or would he All you could do to such a person is to point out the quite objective evidence that they can quite easily see (or hear or feel with finger tips etc). After your obligation has been met and the objective evidence has been presented that person can believe whatever they like. I always feel this way when discussing YEC. Then you don't have objective evidence. Period. Oh! I see now! You meant objective in the sense that Ozzie meant it when he wrote the song "Fairies wear boots"
Darn it!! And for all these years I thought he was making it all up. Thanks for showing me how wrong i was

"Soft Atheism" (What I call true atheism) - No belief in God / A non-belief in God. Not a belief system."Hard Atheism" (What I can non-true atheism; I think the proper term would be anti-theism) - A belief there is no God. A belief system."Ambiguistic Atheism" - Belief in no God. A wording that blurs the division between soft and hard atheism. If you read such to be "Belief in no God", it is hard atheism. If you read such without stressing the "no God", it is soft atheism.MooseAdded by edit: I think there is also a softer version of "Hard Atheism". Perhaps a variety of agnosticism involving binary logic. That is, one can believe that there is no God, because one has no reason to believe the is a God. A belief because of non-belief? This belief system is not actively "anti-theistic". Kind of like the difference between a militant and a non-militent "anti-theist".Edited by Minnemooseus, : See above. Also fixed a spelling error.Edited by Minnemooseus, : Fixed spelling error in previous "added by edit".

Good post Moose (and one that has to be repeated every few months).I think a good way to explain atheism to a lot of people is how I think (and hopefully I'm not unique).So atheism is a lack of belief in god... but even more I simply don't care if god exists or not. I care about the existence of god about as much as I care about last night's WNBA game. Whether there is a god or not is totally irrelevant to my existence so I just don't care because it has zero impact on my life. I don't even concern myself with it.

You apply the same logic to your health care plan as you do to this no doubt? Die/Sickness... they can happen at any time. It pays have an insurance policy

I am perfectly content with whatever happens when I die. I made my peace with life and death years ago (which is strange, because I'm only 29).Since there is no evidence at all of any sort of afterlife I'm certainly not going to worry about it now.In any case if by some strange twist of fate there is a god or god(s) or aliens we meet after we die I am perfectly content to be judged on my actions.A god that needs to be worshipped is an egotistical loser in any case.I've never understood why some people paint god to be like some two-bit 3rd world dictator.

Content with something you have no inkling of. Pray elaborate.. I must say that at 29 death had about as much relevance for me as it appears to have for you. Put on a life vest in that pool of yours and live a litte longer. Your view is likely to change Another works-merchant comes out of the closet. This would all be just dandy so long as "what you did" was the measure the the twist-of-faith-god-in-your-own-image-and-likeness happens to use. It could be any number of things. Why pick on this one? If you don't know him then such misrepresentations are to be expected. For what has one to go on except the idle wanderings of an man-sized imaginationRemember that life jacket y'hear!

Actually you are totally missing the point. I don't beileve in god. I don't care if god exists. And if the way I live my life isn't good enough for some god/god(s)/aliens then they can go fuck themselves.I live my life by what I know is right. And what I know is that many flavors of christianity teach things that are morally wrong. (although not all, I see a lot of common ground with guys like Phat or Jar).Another reason I am an atheist is that I REFUSE to compromise what I know to be right and wrong to accomodate some bullshit book written by people who thought the earth was flat a few thousand years ago. Intolerance is wrong.. and the bible preaches intolerance.

Are you trying to sneak Pascals wager in here iano? You do know that is an extremely sily argument don't you?

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It pays have an insurance policy

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But in an insurance policy the conditions are clearly written so you know what you are getting for your money. The conditions for a Christian afterlife are not.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

If you add all up the various bits of the "literals" claims, he's a terrible god and an awful creator.Created the earth 6000 years ago - was forced to flood it when his creations went out of control and then it's been the end time for the last two thousand years (A 1/3 of it's history!).If he worked at a car factory, he'd be given his cards for shoddy work.

I would say everyone is born agnostic, which is almost the same as atheist but not quite. Agree?Atheism is a disbelief in God, not a lack of belief in Him. An Agnostic such as yourself, does not disbelieve in God, but lacks belief in him as I'm sure you'll agree you do not strongly believe and reject the notion of God.The atheist is the one who rejects God in his own mind.You cannot disbelieve something you have never heard of. When we are born, we are not dogmatically disbelieving any ideology.Ofcourse, I know you are obliging Riverrat's logic, rather than proclaiming people truly are born atheist. (I know I can appear obtuse when I adress someone and seemingly don't know why they are posting something. I know, I'm just a lazy to explain).

Hi RR.You quoted what I must take granted as Jar saying;(as I trust you ) I think this is true, but that the opposite can also be claimed. It is merely not as regularly conveyed as the positive is.You see, we as Theists, can replace his words thus;I can't think of a single reason for a Theist to not believe in God. There isn't any really good verifiable evidence there isn't one, or any strong reason to suppose there might not be a GodNo more Orang-jive! (Only kiddin' Jar, both statements are correct.).